18:07:34 <sri_> #startmeeting
18:07:34 <Services> Meeting started Tue Mar  4 18:07:34 2014 UTC.  The chair is sri_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:07:34 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
18:07:49 <sri_> instant minutes :)
18:07:52 <fredp> ok, let's start
18:08:15 <fredp> #topic Release Assignments
18:08:17 <sri_> fredp: do you mind if I put in stuff using meetbot or do you think it might be distracting?
18:08:27 <fredp> sri_: go for it
18:08:33 <sri_> great, thanks
18:08:42 <fredp> release assignments I believe we are ok.
18:08:42 <fredp> 2014-03-03: 3.11.91: jjardon
18:08:42 <fredp> 2014-03-17: 3.11.92: fredp
18:08:43 <fredp> 2014-03-24: 3.12.0: mclasen
18:08:43 <fredp> 2014-04-14: 3.12.1: fredp
18:08:50 <halfline> might want to #chair fredp
18:08:51 <mclasen> looks fine to me
18:08:55 <fredp> is it still fine for everybody?
18:10:19 <fredp> let's say it's fine.
18:10:53 <fredp> #topic Features Review (but then if I'm not chair that command probably doesn't do anything)
18:11:06 <andre_> alright. hi.
18:11:21 <andre_> (late but made it)
18:11:23 <sri_> #chair fredp
18:11:23 <Services> Current chairs: fredp sri_
18:11:29 <mclasen> hey andre
18:11:43 <fredp> I went over the various features
18:11:44 <sri_> fredp: use #topic to do teh topic
18:12:00 <fredp> #topic Features Review
18:12:30 <fredp> Printing module for Google Cloud Print, Integrate Facebook photos in GNOME Photos, Integrate Windows Live email in GOA and Evolution are all done.
18:12:53 <mclasen> yeah
18:13:05 <fredp> then we have a bunch of new applications, gitg, gnome-logs, gnome-software, polari, gnome-sound-recorder
18:13:06 <mclasen> picket is half done
18:13:12 <mclasen> err, pocket
18:13:15 <jjardon> gitg is included since 3.11.90: works well so far
18:13:37 <fredp> jjardon: we should talk with aday to get it mentioned in the release notes, then
18:13:55 <mclasen> gnome-software is ready for prime time, as far as I'm concerned
18:13:56 <sri_> fredp: I can do that
18:13:59 <jjardon> fredp: I will do
18:14:04 <sri_> since we're working on the release notes
18:14:14 <jjardon> gnome-logs has a hard dependency on systemd journal
18:14:14 <mclasen> it is somewhat limited by packagekit backends, unfortunately
18:14:20 <fredp> jjardon: let's use sri power :)
18:14:24 <jjardon> ok sri_
18:14:25 <mclasen> I can ask Richard to give an update on where it works
18:14:33 <sri_> we have an engagement team meeting on thursday
18:14:57 <fredp> #action sri_ will get gitg mentioned in the release notes
18:15:20 <mclasen> jjardon: its a bit misleading to say 'it has a hard dependency' when it is really just a journal frontend
18:15:45 <fredp> I didn't get to use software, but from I've seen it's all looking nice.
18:16:11 <ovitters> around
18:16:20 <sri_> hiya ovitters ! :)
18:16:21 <mclasen> it is working nicely; offline updates rely on systemd
18:17:17 <fredp> should we explicitely spell out the dependencies on systemd for various features? (gnome-logs, offline updates)
18:17:32 <elleuca> here I am, hi everyone
18:17:57 <jjardon> fredp: its already in the modulesets (for gnome-logs and mutter-wayland)
18:17:58 <ovitters> I'm using Polari, it is still a bit rough, also seem no release for a while
18:18:13 <mclasen> I think it makes sense to mention it (systemd deps)
18:18:27 <mclasen> ovitters: last I heard florian was working towards a release
18:18:48 <mclasen> shall we talk about features that just didn't get done ?
18:18:52 <mclasen> I know two, at least
18:19:00 <mclasen> color tinting and zimbra integration
18:19:18 <mclasen> I'll just remove those from the feature list after the meeting
18:19:50 <mclasen> then there are a few that are half done: pocket integration and wayland port
18:19:53 <fredp> mclasen: go for it, and I'd also remove Polari if it's not ready.
18:20:15 <fredp> yeah, pocket integration is missing the epiphany part.  hadess has been pushing for it, but no success.
18:20:59 <jjardon> any chance to finish that for 3.12? we are in .91 already ...
18:21:09 <elleuca> polari as preview? as we did previously?
18:21:14 <ovitters> Polari is maybe good enough as preview.. just a few annoying things
18:21:34 <ovitters> e.g. not reconnecting, not handling nickserv
18:21:58 <fredp> jjardon: given the bug report I don't think Pocket will make it.
18:22:18 <fredp> mclasen: what's your opinion on this?  did you talk with hadess recently?
18:22:18 <mclasen> we do have pocket support in totem, from what I understand
18:22:27 <mclasen> so its not as if nothing is there
18:22:38 <fredp> oh, I didn't know there was a totem part, nice.
18:22:59 <mclasen> the totem part being there is the reason why the goa support was merged
18:23:17 <fredp> ok, and it's mentioned in the release notes already.
18:24:14 <mclasen> for polari, probably worth talking to fmuellner for his take, and to aday for a design review
18:24:37 <mclasen> or rather, to #gnome-design - aday is off for the rest of the week
18:25:23 <fredp> ok, let's get it mentioned in the the release notes as a preview release if fmuellner and #gnome-design are ok with it.
18:25:40 <fredp> about, zimbra and colour tinting, let's push them to 3.14, and mention them in ddl when we open the feature discussion. ?
18:26:28 <mclasen> color tinting has made some progress at least, I've discussed it recently with meg and aday, and we have a rough idea for how the ui should look
18:26:41 <mclasen> just no implementation yet
18:28:00 <fredp> ok, I added that info to the pad
18:28:07 <fredp> what about zimbra?
18:28:32 <mclasen> I just moved that to 2.13
18:28:41 <mclasen> nothing has happened for zimbra, afaik
18:29:19 <fredp> ok
18:29:32 <fredp> so, wayland
18:29:40 <mclasen> for the wayland port, you've seen the status update I sent last week
18:29:44 <fredp> #topic Wayland status
18:29:53 <fredp> (ftr, that's https://mail.gnome.org/archives/release-team/2014-February/msg00073.html)
18:30:01 <mclasen> we had a hangout with owen, krh, Jasper, giovanni and ray
18:30:06 <mclasen> oh, and rui
18:30:50 <mclasen> and clearly, we're not at a point where we it is good enough to be on by default - too many things don't work, and we can't test it widely
18:31:11 <mclasen> so, the reponsible thing to do is to keep it as a preview for 3.12 and keep working on it next cycle
18:31:35 <fredp> agree
18:31:43 <mclasen> we're still hoping to get gdm support, so you can log in to a wayland session from the login screen
18:31:52 <sri_> yeah, I agree as well.
18:31:59 <mclasen> if we get that, we can at least plausibly claim that we've made progress since 3.10
18:32:43 <mclasen> libinput just recently got its first release, and rui could land a bunch of keybinding and input work, so we're a little further along for that too
18:33:13 <ovitters> I noticed libinput is now required by IIRC clutter
18:33:22 <fredp> and clutter uses libinput, indeed
18:33:35 <desrt> it's not a hard requirement, afaik
18:33:44 <jjardon> Id say the gdm stuff its the most important one to claim we support wayland as an alternative
18:35:30 <ovitters> which should make it, so we can claim continued preview
18:35:30 <sri_> so if we make any forward progress at teh west coast hackfest, I would love to see something mid cycle
18:35:56 <sri_> I don't know if we have resources to pull that off though.
18:35:57 <mclasen> on the mutter side, owen and Jasper agreed to keep mutter-wayland on its branch for now, and merge things only after 3.12
18:36:13 <mclasen> to not risk destabilizing the X compositor
18:36:53 <jjardon> +1
18:37:02 <andre_> yeah, sounds good
18:37:03 <ovitters> mutter-wayland requires logind, after merging that'll only be for wayland?
18:37:14 <jjardon> at that point GNOME will depend on systemd though
18:38:03 <jjardon> (not something that really bother me, only saying the facts)
18:38:04 <mclasen> ovitters: logind will be required to launch wayland sessions, from what I understand
18:38:17 <mclasen> X sessions should continue working as they always have
18:38:40 <mclasen> thats because the functionality of weston-launch has been pulled into logind
18:39:03 <halfline> early in the 3.14 cycle i want to strip out ConsoleKit supprot from GDM
18:39:04 <mclasen> if we get to use rootless X, then X may require similar launcher functionality
18:39:42 <desrt> halfline: ideally only if you want to move to a possible-to-reimplement API for doing the same thing (which could end up looking quite a lot like logind, of course)
18:40:34 <halfline> desrt: well you're working on a stubbed out logind no op library right?
18:40:58 <desrt> halfline: not logind... but something similar... but i have some big questions about the direction that it should go in.
18:41:06 <halfline> part of the reason i said "early in the 3.14 cycle i want to strip out ConsoleKit support from GDM" was because I broached the idea with you recently and you enthusiastically told me to do it
18:41:12 <desrt> does gdm need only the sd-login client library or does it also use the bus API?
18:41:51 <halfline> a little of both i think
18:42:14 <sri_> halfline: would stripping out consolekit from gdm put us in trouble with the bsds?
18:42:15 <desrt> the bus API parts could be interesting.  i consider gdm to be in a bit of a special case situation, though...
18:42:45 <desrt> sri_: it would be a regression there... but i think we need to have the death of CK in our short-to-medium-term planning in any case
18:43:10 <mclasen> its dead, jim (for a long time already)
18:43:26 <desrt> mclasen: 'death' = ripped out of gnome code
18:43:49 <sri_> okay, so we should probably tell them ahead of time so they can figure out how to maintain what they have
18:43:59 <desrt> halfline: i'm happy to work with you at working out what you need from an API and then helping to implement it as a stub and as a thin wrapper around systemd
18:44:02 <ovitters> desrt: so is 3.14 realistic?
18:44:08 <desrt> ovitters: yes
18:44:26 <mclasen> right, it is an interesting idea to sketch out the coming sysdep changes for 3.14 a bit
18:44:33 <desrt> there are a lot of big issues here.... udev, networkmanager, etc... limiting the scope to logind for 3.14 is realistic.
18:44:38 <jjardon> desrt: thats not what pustream says ;) : http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/
18:44:56 <ovitters> aside from GDM there is a lot of other software with systemd stuff
18:45:00 <ovitters> e.g. mutter-wayland
18:45:06 <walters> hi
18:45:21 <desrt> ovitters: didn't look there yet-- gnome-session is a pretty heavy user, too, though... and not just in the read-only sense
18:45:24 <mclasen> hey walters
18:45:35 <jjardon> AFAIK, mutter-wayland and gnome-logs are the only modules that hard depend on systemd
18:45:40 <jjardon> hi walters
18:45:40 <desrt> but there are probably about a dozen modules with "light" read-only use
18:45:50 <ovitters> walters: https://meetbot.gnome.org/release-team/2014/release-team.2014-03-04-18.07.log.txt
18:45:59 <fredp> ok, let's focus on 3.12, and make sure to have the logind/gdm/etc. conversation early in 3.13?
18:46:12 <halfline> sounds good
18:46:13 <desrt> fredp: agreed... not much to be said here for 3.12.
18:46:18 <ovitters> fredp: I'd like to do an announcement?
18:46:24 <ovitters> Debian GR stuff, etc
18:46:38 <mclasen> lets collect some facts first
18:46:53 <mclasen> I can set up a wiki page, listing dependencies, etc
18:47:00 <mclasen> I'm sure desrt will help out too
18:47:13 <desrt> mclasen: so looking at the wip/conditional branch on jhbuild is interesting...
18:47:31 <desrt> it sort of is the start of documenting which modules have conditional dependencies on which things
18:47:42 <desrt> ...as a nice side effect of its actual purpose
18:47:48 <mclasen> ok
18:48:07 <fredp> ovitters: are you fine waiting for the open discussion, wiki page, and stuff, before talking to debian?
18:48:43 <ovitters> fredp: I think an announcement is better regarding removal of CK
18:49:12 <desrt> ovitters elects to play bad cop first :)
18:49:13 <sri_> can we have a preview based off a snapshot to show off wayland?
18:49:15 <ovitters> fredp: then say what the initial plan is, not being specific yet, then mention stub library, not doing work
18:49:53 <mclasen> sri_: you mean, a snapshot before 3.12 ? or something before 3.14 ?
18:50:41 <sri_> mclasen: something before 3.14
18:50:59 <ovitters> I'll discuss the announcement thing on mailing list, think we said enough for now
18:51:00 <mclasen> sure, that sounds very possible
18:51:15 <fredp> ovitters: ok.
18:51:20 <fredp> #topic Blockers
18:51:21 <sri_> excellent - basically a sort of preview/tease of GNOME on wayland
18:51:33 <fredp> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&cf_gnome_target=3.12
18:51:39 <elleuca> OT: I suspect I've a 5 minutes lag :(
18:51:41 <fredp> andre_: are you with us?
18:51:53 <andre_> yes, until the wifi goes down again :P
18:52:03 <andre_> flaky...
18:52:19 <fredp> did all of you have a look at the current list?  want to nominate some other bugs to that list?
18:52:45 <desrt> i think the amazing-disappearing-mouse-cursor issue belongs there somehow
18:52:59 * mclasen didn't do very active bugzilla patrolling this cycle, so there may be more stuff out there
18:53:09 <desrt> possibly resolved by a clear note in the release notes explaining to people the exact way in which their X server is broken and exactly which patches they need to fix it
18:53:19 <mclasen> desrt: do we have an open bug for it ?
18:53:24 <fredp> desrt: but the bug is marked as closed, so it won't appear there :/
18:53:32 <desrt> mclasen: we have a closed bug for it... as far as hadess is concerned, it's not our issue
18:53:44 <mclasen> did you get to talk to him about it ?
18:53:56 <desrt> he told me to fix my X server and pointed me at the upstream bug :)
18:54:09 <mclasen> ha yeah
18:54:19 <desrt> i said maybe we should detect broken X somehow and disable the feature and he asked me for suggestions how to do that (which i didn't have, of course)
18:54:31 <mclasen> sadly, we're still seeing some invisible cursors in rawhide here and there, so there must be more fishy
18:54:52 <mclasen> airlied recently claimed that one I was seeing in continous was fixed in the qxl driver
18:55:12 <desrt> ya... there seems to be some disagreement on if it is a driver issue or a xsync issue
18:55:55 <mclasen> the one good thing in this whole mess is that there's a very straightforward workaround
18:55:58 <jjardon> desrt: Could you put a link to the upstream bug as a last comment in the bug report (if its not there already)
18:56:04 <desrt> anyway... i don't know anything about this issue really... but i think we should consider disabling the feature unless we have very clear instructions for how to fix it
18:56:12 <desrt> jjardon: it already links the upstream bug
18:56:41 <mclasen> should probably put it in the release notes ? do we have a 'well-known bugs' section there ?
18:56:55 <jjardon> mclasen: +1
18:56:56 <andre_> sometimes we had in the past, but not recently
18:57:04 <desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=706229#c21
18:57:04 <Services> 04Bug 706229: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-desktop-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, mouse cursor occasionally invisible after logging in
18:57:04 <elleuca> mclasen not recently
18:57:29 <jjardon> desrt: thanks
18:57:53 <desrt> mclasen: i think it should only be listed in the notes if we can give some useful pointers...
18:58:19 <mclasen> sure
18:58:45 <desrt> probably need airlied to talk to peter hutterer or something to decide what the 'official story' is
18:58:59 <desrt> or if these are even the same issue at all
19:00:12 <fredp> some volunteer to talk to airlied to talk to peter?
19:00:27 <desrt> is peter on IRC?
19:00:36 <desrt> i can do it... *shrug*
19:00:52 <mclasen> he's whot on irc
19:01:02 <mclasen> on Australian time, though
19:01:07 * desrt assumes that this is not a typo for 'not' :)
19:01:15 <desrt> thanks -- i'll give a poke
19:01:29 <fredp> thanks desrt
19:02:14 <fredp> mclasen: wrt gtk+, are the current blockers correct?
19:02:21 <mclasen> desrt: I think it phonetic for hutterer (whot -> who-t -> hu-t -> hutterer)
19:03:42 <mclasen> correct in so far that all of those would be good to address in 3.12
19:04:11 <mclasen> not necessarily things we need to block the release for, though
19:05:26 <jjardon> sorry guys, have to go. I will take a look to the notes later
19:05:39 <fredp> jjardon: ok, see you.
19:05:59 <fredp> mclasen: I presume it's almost the same for gnome-shell, nice to fixes but not really blocking a release.
19:06:23 <jjardon> I will update the first modulesets to releng today, bye!
19:06:35 <mclasen> a few of the shell ones look ugly, though
19:06:53 <mclasen> like crashing on an invalid desktop file
19:07:12 <desrt> i don't suppose that one is somehow my fault...
19:07:26 <ovitters> ugly as in impact or how to investigate/fix?
19:07:40 <mclasen> not sure, the bug hasn't seen activity in a month - may well be fixed already
19:08:06 <mclasen> ugly as in: we shouldn't do that to our users
19:10:25 <fredp> that's it for the current bug list, unless someone has a particular thing to say about some bug.  and anyway, let's have a continuous look on bug reports, and mark the ones we believe as important.
19:11:09 <mclasen> sure
19:13:03 <fredp> next topic, live images?
19:13:44 <ovitters> ok
19:13:49 <fredp> #topic Live images
19:14:06 <fredp> can we use gnome-continuous for that?, is it set to 3.12 branches?
19:14:08 <mclasen> not much good news on that front, unfortunately
19:14:21 <mclasen> halfline is stuck in rhel land for the time being
19:14:37 <mclasen> and walters is off doing 'atomic fedora'
19:14:58 <walters> fredp, continuous intentionally doesn't support physical hardware: https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-continuous/commit/?id=c124396bbdf1397e53f4b3e5d0402f2cfb41626e
19:15:24 <walters> but yeah, I hope the transfer of the underlying ostree technology to traditional distributions will allow users to do things like run debian stable, and try out unstable with total safety
19:15:26 <fredp> walters: I know, but providing a VM to get gnome running is nice enough
19:15:57 <mclasen> sure, we do have continuous vm images
19:16:04 <mclasen> thats better than nothing
19:16:09 <mclasen> but not quite the same as live images
19:18:17 <elleuca> I've to leave for few minutes, consider I'm available for syncing with engament team
19:18:29 <fredp> well, no live images then, let's not fret over this
19:18:37 <ovitters> also not for .0?
19:18:58 <mclasen> we'll make an attempt to get it done for .0
19:19:24 <mclasen> or, I guess anybody else can too - at some point I think we had suse based live images ?
19:19:54 <fredp> yes, but fcrozat is no longer available.
19:19:56 <ovitters> I tried asking how to do with Mageia, don't get how
19:19:59 <fredp> ovitters: what about mageia?
19:20:00 <mclasen> now that we're talking about distro based stuff
19:20:17 <mclasen> I should perhaps bring up the fact that there will be no f21 this spring
19:20:29 <ovitters> I can ask again, but being pointed to a tool and "figure it out" is not helpful
19:20:32 <mclasen> so we're lacking one of our major 'outlets' this time around
19:20:43 <fredp> mclasen: but you'll get 3.12 in f20?
19:20:51 <mclasen> f21 looks like it'll be delayed until around halloween or so
19:20:51 <desrt> we could do a freebsd live image *cough*
19:20:58 <sri_> we should!
19:20:59 <sri_> totally
19:21:00 <desrt> mclasen: i read ~august
19:21:14 <mclasen> we'll see what happens
19:21:32 <mclasen> fredp: we have a copr for now (thats the fedora version of a ppa)
19:21:50 <mclasen> not sure yet about pushing it as a regular update into f20
19:21:53 <fredp> mclasen: but no plan to have it as a regular update?
19:22:00 <fredp> ok, thanks for the answer before the question
19:22:29 <mclasen> we've always looked down at the kde guys for doing that (pushing major revisions as updates)
19:22:43 <mclasen> so, we're in a bit of a pickle...
19:22:53 <elleuca> back
19:23:14 <mclasen> and there are some actual complications, like extensions breaking - and almost everybody has some shell extensions installed
19:23:25 <ovitters> mclasen: Mageia people won't like major revisions, though ok for 3.12 because we probably won't freeze any time soon
19:23:54 * walters doesn't have shell extensions ;)
19:23:59 <desrt> mclasen: any insight as to what happened with fedora?
19:24:21 <mclasen> desrt: in what sense ?
19:24:31 <desrt> why did it get pushed back so far?
19:24:45 <desrt> i mean... there have been a lot of schedule slips in f18/19/20 ... but this is quite insane
19:25:14 <ovitters> fedora.next
19:25:15 <desrt> seems they try a new approach entirely now?
19:25:26 <mclasen> there's this whole fedora.next initiative - defining separate products for cloud/server/workstation
19:25:56 <mclasen> its not so much a slip as a do-over
19:25:57 <desrt> interesting.  i'll read more about it later.
19:27:52 <desrt> sri_: a freebsd livecd would be a theoretical possibility but i'm not sure that it's something we would be very proud to show off in its current state
19:27:57 <desrt> everything runs... but only barely :)
19:28:13 <desrt> like the shell status menu is empty, or filled with non-working controls
19:28:25 <desrt> (no logind, no networkmanager, etc.)
19:28:30 <desrt> all the apps work, more or less, though
19:29:49 <mclasen> jjardon: fyi, I'm still working on an gnome-initial-setup release, but I'm still debugging, so it may not make it out in time for .91
19:29:51 <ovitters> desrt: sounds nice
19:30:07 <ovitters> desrt: how much work would it take to create it?
19:30:21 <ovitters> desrt: I think we should use it for a "help wanted"
19:30:42 <desrt> ovitters: i have no idea what is involved in creating a live spin for freebsd... but creating a working system image on freebsd with latest gnome-from-git is just a matter of following some instructions and waiting for it all to build...
19:30:54 <mclasen> at the 90 minute mark - time to switch to the last topic ?
19:31:09 <ovitters> instead of live image, we wanted to get more help improving freebsd, so for 3.12, we'll show of what gnome is like under freebsd ;)
19:31:30 <desrt> ovitters: interesting.. uh.. proposal.... i'll talk to the bsd guys to see how easy it is to do a live image
19:31:38 <desrt> worse comes to worse we can do it as a VM image
19:32:07 <ovitters> desrt: that's something we could put in the release notes
19:32:33 <desrt> "preview" :)
19:32:43 <sri_> ovitters: +1 on 'help wanted'
19:33:01 <desrt> rolls nicely into the final topic... engagement...
19:33:18 <ovitters> fredp: topci thingy
19:33:32 <fredp> #topic Sync with engagement team on release planning
19:34:13 <sri_> you want to invite aday?
19:35:11 <fredp> sri_: I just pinged him in #gnome-hackers
19:35:29 <sri_> okay good
19:36:18 <fredp> mclasen: you added that topic, did you have particular things to bring to the table?
19:36:46 <mclasen> ha, I don't remember that
19:37:09 <mclasen> but no, not beyond the general need to sync up on features, release notes, etc
19:37:55 <mclasen> we've done a sweep over those topics today, so the meeting notes may be good enough for now
19:38:05 <fredp> sri_: are things clear from this meeting?
19:38:18 <fredp> and in any case, you're always welcome to join in :)
19:38:19 <elleuca> I can sync with flavia (deindre on IRC)
19:39:26 <mclasen> aday is out for the rest of the week, as I already mentioned - so reaching out to him will have to wait until next week
19:39:33 <sri_> fredp: I think so.
19:39:52 <elleuca> she is in engament team and recetly wrote/reviewed most of communicacation from engagemente team with  karen and aday
19:40:06 <fredp> sri_: when is your meeting again?
19:40:18 <sri_> thursday at 19:00 UTC
19:40:36 <aday> hi all
19:40:43 <sri_> oh hai, aday
19:41:50 <aday> fredp, i'm here now
19:42:20 <fredp> aday: we were concluding the release team meeting talking about our relationship to the engagement team, making sure it's aware of the necessary stuff for release notes, et al.
19:42:32 <aday> sounds great
19:42:33 <fredp> and sri_ says it's fine :)
19:42:52 <aday> fredp, nice thread on ddl, btw
19:43:02 <aday> useful discussion to be having
19:43:32 <sri_> +1
19:43:39 <fredp> aday: nice to know I managed to turn my frustration into a useful discussion.
19:43:50 <sri_> fredp: I loved it
19:44:37 <aday> fredp, that's where it all starts...
19:45:01 <fredp> I'm fine ending the meeting here.
19:45:01 <aday> anyway, are there any changes that we need to know about for the release notes?
19:45:23 <fredp> aday: a few things, mostly they are noted in http://piratepad.net/rt-20140304
19:45:28 <sri_> aday: yes, we had one - release team would like to include gitg in the release notes
19:45:32 <fredp> and sri_ followed along.
19:45:53 <sri_> yaeh, not completely, people interrupt me, hell I'm in a meeting right now.
19:46:20 <aday> yes to gitg
19:46:34 <aday> one thing i haven't figured out is how to handle the new apps - sound recorder, polari, logs
19:46:38 * sri_ complets his action item :)
19:46:42 <fredp> aday: also there was a question about polari
19:47:09 <fredp> we'd need to check with florian and you guys in #gnome-design if it was ready enough to be mentioned.
19:47:12 <elleuca> guys, I have to leave :) see you soon
19:47:17 <aday> i haven't found polari entirely usable... :/
19:47:19 <fredp> see you elleuca
19:47:51 <aday> sound recorder i couldn't test (possibly because of a jhbuild issue)
19:48:03 <aday> it's been a while since i've tried logs
19:49:28 <aday> it'd be cool to hear what the rt thinks about these apps (not necessarily today!)
19:49:45 <fredp> gnome-logs was freezing quite a bit when I last tested it, but the NEWS file says it's fixed now.
19:50:00 <aday> on a related subject - i've been wondering about what our "preview" status means in practice
19:50:01 <fredp> ovitters has been using polari
19:50:23 <aday> maybe we need to make it clearer to users; like showing a message dialog on first run
19:50:31 <aday> "this is a preview app. don't expect too much"
19:50:45 <fredp> aday: it's "hey we are working on this, it's not ready yet, but we want to show you where we're going".
19:51:01 <fredp> indeed, maybe they should have a common dialog at first startup.
19:51:10 <aday> fredp, right. my concern is that we don't communicate that to users
19:51:22 <aday> they just look like regular apps
19:54:09 <mclasen> fredp: the freezing has been fixed, indeed
19:57:21 <ovitters> aday: polari is rough
19:57:34 <ovitters> especially initial setup
19:57:44 <ovitters> IIRC you also need to know about /join
19:59:10 <ovitters> hmm, Cauldron already has libinput + clutter
19:59:25 <fredp> we're reaching the two hours mark, let's officially close this meeting; thanks everyone.
19:59:39 <fredp> and feel free to continue discussing.
20:00:24 <aday> ovitters, i saw that lucasr commented about initial on g+ a little while ago. we could try and take a look
20:01:02 <ovitters> fredp: #endmeeting
20:01:07 <fredp> #endmeeting