15:13:31 <sri> #startmeeting
15:13:31 <Services> Meeting started Thu Mar 13 15:13:31 2014 UTC.  The chair is sri. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:13:31 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:14:05 <vrutkovs> nice
15:14:11 <sri> #agenda defining goals and objectives
15:14:15 <sri> rats
15:14:24 <sri> #topic defining goals and objectives
15:14:31 <sri> vrutkovs: yeah, we got mad stuff here :)
15:14:44 <sri> I think we covered this from the last meeting more or less
15:14:51 <sri> but we had soem action plans that we need tow rok out.
15:15:04 <sri> so the last time, we had talked aboutg using the existing test cases from fedora, correct?
15:15:09 <vrutkovs> yes
15:15:19 <vrutkovs> kind of 'from fedora'
15:15:26 <vrutkovs> as we first tried to push this to fedora
15:15:36 <vrutkovs> but upstream seems to be more fitting place
15:15:53 <vrutkovs> so the whole idea (as I see it) for now is to extend automatio suites
15:15:54 <sri> upstream being GNOME, right?
15:16:00 <vrutkovs> yes
15:16:06 <sri> oaky, that sounds like a good start.
15:16:21 <sri> small, easily accomplsihed objectives.
15:16:22 <vrutkovs> extension should be both in depth (more cases) and in width (more components)
15:16:52 <vrutkovs> meanwhile I'm playing with gnome-continuous images
15:16:57 <sri> sweet.
15:17:07 <vrutkovs> as they are supposed to be freshest composes of GNOME
15:17:13 <sri> right.
15:17:26 <vrutkovs> I think this will be useful for designers and manual testers
15:17:36 <sri> oh absolutely
15:17:47 <sri> we need to sorto f build up a community of manual testers
15:18:06 <vrutkovs> also build.gnome.org has tons of important info so we can make nice reports out of it
15:18:27 <vrutkovs> yes, we can ping documentation team and encourage them to use those images
15:18:39 <vrutkovs> to check that docs are correct for latest versions
15:18:46 <shivani> ^ +1
15:19:06 <vrutkovs> and yes, building a community of people who are interested - that'd be great
15:19:07 <sri> we need gnome-continuous to also test all the examples in developer.gnome.org
15:19:19 <sri> I can work on teh community aspect of it.
15:19:37 <sri> #action sri to work on building up a community of manual testers
15:20:20 <sri> #action sri to work on how to obtain the list of software to test
15:20:29 <vrutkovs> blog posts for instance are quite effective
15:20:46 <vrutkovs> aday has asked us to cover changes in 3.12 for components in blog posts
15:20:49 <shivani> We also need apt documentation for using the testing APIs
15:20:57 <vrutkovs> so it would be useful to have such 'announcement' of qa team
15:21:17 <vrutkovs> shivani: yes, dogtail has epydoc and soem examples
15:21:48 <sri> so, regarding teh announcement of a qa team
15:21:52 <sri> I don't want to do that just yet
15:22:03 <sri> because once I do, if people come to me I need to able to get them useful immediately
15:22:07 <sri> otherwise we lose momentum
15:22:19 <vrutkovs> hmm, agreed
15:22:40 <vrutkovs> I think we can do this as soon as we sort out some basic stuff to start with
15:22:54 <sri> that's why getting a tutorial on how to use dogtail, the list of components and whatever else needs to be done ahead of time
15:22:55 <vrutkovs> as even explaining jhbuild is hard
15:23:02 <sri> exactly
15:23:18 <sri> once we do this, we can grow this qa team really fast because the barrier of entry is low
15:23:46 <sri> we'll need a mentor who will always be around.. and thata can be like 2-3 of us who built this up.
15:24:04 <sri> preferably in different time zones.
15:24:27 <sri> so, let's break it down we need:
15:24:30 <vrutkovs> hmm, me, vhumpa and vbenes are quite proficient in dogtail
15:24:43 <vrutkovs> but we're are in one timezone
15:24:46 <sri> since our first goal is to built up automated testing, let's styart with that.
15:24:52 <vrutkovs> yep
15:25:14 <sri> we'll figure out the manual testing later, as you stated, let's get the automaatic tests to fedora as the first goal.
15:25:26 <sri> sot hat would mean:
15:25:37 <sri> 1) getting tutorials in dogtail
15:25:54 <sri> actually, let's back up
15:25:58 <vrutkovs> also patches for new examples in dogtail are always welcome
15:26:04 <sri> 1) get list of tests in fedora
15:26:13 <sri> 2) understand and figure out what those tests are and what is covered
15:26:22 <sri> 3) find out what needs to be covered
15:26:42 <sri> in parallel
15:26:43 <vrutkovs> sri: fedora doesn't have any 'additional' UI tests except the ones in GNOME
15:26:54 <sri> ok
15:27:14 <vrutkovs> all that fedora-desktop-testing repo is me / vhumpa / vbenes written, so we do knwo the lsit for it
15:27:15 <sri> that leads me to a question
15:27:39 <sri> does our responsiblity for testing start and end at GNOME?  or do we test lower stuff like bluetooth or something?
15:27:55 <sri> oh good :)
15:28:02 <vrutkovs> sri: potentially - yes, it does stop here for now
15:28:03 <sri> that makes it a lot easier
15:28:36 <sri> okay, we can worry about expanding once we have our initial goals completed
15:28:48 <sri> okay, so basically 1 and 2 is done
15:28:55 <sri> and we need to do 3 right?
15:29:07 <vrutkovs> yes, but we severely lack people
15:29:16 <vrutkovs> so I don't think its time for priorities
15:29:26 * sri nods.
15:29:33 <vrutkovs> for instance shivani has started with gnome-weather (as they already have tests)
15:29:53 <vrutkovs> msimon is working on gnome-software for the same reason
15:29:54 <sri> I would like to ramp up Gayathri_
15:30:10 <sri> how are we tracking this?
15:30:17 <sri> we probably need to put ina  wiki page
15:30:37 <vrutkovs> for now the list ends here ;)
15:30:45 <sri> in fact, I think I'll give that to Gayathri_ :)
15:30:58 <sri> #action Gayathri_ to create QA team wiki page
15:31:07 * vrutkovs agrees
15:31:13 * shivani nodes
15:31:16 <shivani> *nods
15:31:29 <sri> Gayathri_: you get to create some of the documentation and the team wiki page :)
15:31:49 <sri> Gayathri_: it's easy and easily understandable, and kind of gives you a start of being involved.
15:31:54 <vrutkovs> Gayathri_: start with things you know now, I think we can help with updating it
15:32:06 <shivani> Plus we can help in documentation
15:32:09 <shivani> exactly :)
15:32:27 <sri> however, one of you needs to mentor Gayathri_ on dogtail
15:32:37 <vrutkovs> I'm gonna work on sticking this behave thingie in gnome-continuous
15:32:46 <vrutkovs> no problem
15:32:56 <sri> behavie thingie?
15:33:00 <vrutkovs> Gayathri_: feel free to ping me or vhumpa on dogtail stuff
15:33:30 <vrutkovs> sri: yeah, a bit more complicated thing than the scripts - it helps to separate scenarios from actual dogtail code
15:34:07 <sri> vrutkovs: we really should give her a task to write in dogtail
15:34:09 <shivani> Gayathri_: maybe you can refer to the older ones and update the depreciated bits of it for starters?
15:34:10 <vrutkovs> Gayathri_: we don't have it now, but dogtail/examples and gnome-weather/tests should be pretty much self-descriptive
15:34:20 <sri> vrutkovs: it's too free form, and you don't know what to ask if you don'tk nwo what you're doing
15:34:29 <sri> shivani: +1
15:35:02 <vrutkovs> shivani: well, we don't have any document like "How to get started with dogtail", but epydoc / examples
15:35:16 <shivani> vrutkovs: we have an old tutorial from Automated testing (written in 2006), I was myself planning to write an updation for it , by working on the depreciated pieces, picking that up might be useful.
15:35:21 * shivani goes to get the link
15:35:43 <vrutkovs> sri: that's debatable, it was designed to have an abstraction level
15:35:53 <vrutkovs> shivani: oh yeah, updating that one would be great
15:36:13 <shivani> vrutkovs: http://www.redhat.com/magazine/020jun06/features/dogtail/ this one :D
15:36:30 <sri> #action vrutkovs to integrate behave into gnome-continuous
15:36:53 <vrutkovs> #link outdated, but useful dogtail tutorial http://www.redhat.com/magazine/020jun06/features/dogtail/
15:37:06 <sri> #idea updating old tutorial from Automated testing (written in 2006), shivani was planning on updating that
15:37:11 <vrutkovs> +1
15:37:18 <shivani> oops yes that one :)
15:37:25 <sri> oh, yeah, cool
15:37:37 <sri> Gayathri_: http://www.redhat.com/magazine/020jun06/features/dogtail/ reading material for you :)
15:38:04 <sri> okay, so our next meeting should be in two weeks, and in that time frame we should have:
15:38:15 <sri> * wiki page for QA team
15:38:25 <sri> * list of UI components we are currently testing
15:38:43 <sri> * list of UI components we should be testing for each gnome component?
15:39:05 <vrutkovs> I'd replace that with 'low-hanging fruits' for now
15:39:20 <vrutkovs> say, gcalctool is much simplier than gnome-shell
15:39:32 <vrutkovs> so for a couple of month we need to get people trained
15:39:41 <vrutkovs> and then manage the priorities imho
15:39:42 <sri> oaky, maybe we should just have a continuous discussion and just sort of evolve it
15:39:51 <shivani> absolutely I agree with vrutkovs
15:39:57 <sri> * candidate list of UI components for testing
15:40:17 <sri> I added 'candidate' to indicate low hanging fruit
15:40:31 <vrutkovs> right, agreed
15:41:02 <sri> Gayathri_: you're welcome to ask me anything regarding creating the wiki, give me a call or something or whatever way your comfortable and I can help you out.
15:41:51 <sri> #action for next meeting we will have - * wikipage for QA team, list of UI components we ar currently testing, * candidate list of UI components we should be testing
15:42:07 <shivani> great!
15:42:09 <sri> #action work through the next two weeks to build the list through IRC
15:43:05 <sri> who wants to take responsibilty for updating the tutorial?
15:43:34 <sri> actually, we got enough work, let's wait till next time and we can talka bout it.
15:43:38 <vrutkovs> I suck at writing, but can do help with technical bits
15:43:54 <sri> we can push to next meeting
15:43:54 <shivani> me too, can help with all that I have learnt so far
15:44:03 <vrutkovs> yep, we can set the tutorial as a part of GSOC task ;)
15:44:07 <sri> looks like we need a victim
15:44:12 <sri> maybe we can ask someone from teh documentationt eam?
15:44:20 <sri> vrutkovs: or OPW
15:44:27 <shivani> vrutkovs: Haha
15:44:37 <sri> wait did you guys get a GSOC persona already?
15:45:02 <vrutkovs> no, but shivani and msimon are candidates (the ones I know of)
15:45:10 <sri> oh, hah, nice!
15:45:14 <sri> now I get the joke!
15:45:39 <sri> yeah, tutorial could be a GSOC task :)
15:45:43 <vrutkovs> yeah, if gnome qa fails to something - set this as a goal for gsoc task ;)
15:45:58 <sri> sounds good to me
15:46:07 <vrutkovs> okay, anyone else wants to cover anything?
15:46:07 <sri> we probably don't need to open upa  OPW person for this I think.
15:46:12 <sri> I think we're done.
15:46:24 <shivani> also, I'd prefer we write a tutorial for walking through writing Dogtail tutorial exploiting accesciser as a utility instead of sniff.
15:46:35 <shivani> ^ yeah but thats just the technical side of it
15:46:42 <sri> nod
15:46:54 <shivani> sri: No OPW ?
15:47:02 <vrutkovs> I'd say the more the better
15:47:07 <sri> dunno... if you can come up with a list of things to be done I will consider it.
15:47:12 <shivani> It wouldn't hurt to have an intern working on the documentation aspect of the project frankly
15:47:14 <sri> and we need a mentor as well.
15:47:26 <shivani> Infact
15:47:32 <sri> better to do that through the documentation team, no?
15:47:38 <sri> mdhill_: what do you think?
15:47:41 <shivani> proposals already in GSoC can be taken up as OPW projects
15:47:49 <vrutkovs> yes, also I can be a mentor (I need more presents for my wife during guadec :) )
15:48:01 <sri> I can talk with marina about it.
15:48:08 <sri> vrutkovs: haha
15:48:12 <shivani> we already have a proposed project with soc, if we manage to get slots in opw for it I think thats handled
15:48:26 <shivani> vrutkovs: Hahaha :D
15:48:29 <vrutkovs> right, it depends on the applications
15:48:35 <shivani> get your wife to guadec this time around :)
15:48:48 <sri> okay, I can ask marina about it.
15:49:01 <shivani> great :) sounds good .
15:49:55 <sri> I will ask kat's opinion on it as well since she'll probably want to know as well
15:50:08 <mdhill_> sri, sure, but afaik the only one mentoring so far this year is sindhu
15:50:34 <sri> mdhill_: well vrutkovs can be the mentor for this one because he's the techical expert
15:50:40 <sri> technical expert
15:50:46 <mdhill_> terrific
15:50:52 <shivani> +1
15:51:07 <vrutkovs> yeah, co-mentoring with sindhu would be the best possible option, actually
15:51:19 <sri> #action sri to talk with marina about OPW candidate for QA Team, with vrutkovs as mentor
15:51:38 <sri> man, how do I delete an action? :)
15:52:02 <sri> #action ask sindhu about co-mentoring for OPW
15:52:05 <vrutkovs> type '#action git revert HEAD' ;)
15:52:07 <sri> I like having a doc expert around
15:52:12 <sri> vrutkovs: :D
15:52:31 <sri> and sindhu is a great mentor :)
15:53:00 <shivani> yay more people in the project :)
15:53:09 <sri> I'll check up with people next week on how things are going with their action items
15:53:55 <sri> oaky, let's end it :)
15:53:56 <sri> #endmeeting