17:04:17 <av> #startmeeting
17:04:18 <Services> Meeting started Wed Apr  9 17:04:17 2014 UTC.  The chair is av. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:04:18 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
17:04:23 <av> #chair av
17:04:23 <Services> Current chairs: av
17:04:31 <av> #topic Elections
17:04:56 <av> muelli_, do you plan to re-apply for this year's elections?
17:05:30 <av> if yes, either me or fabiana should probably take care of running the elections like we did the past year
17:05:48 <muelli_> heh. Good question.
17:05:56 <muelli_> Let me decide to not commit myself now.
17:06:03 <fabiana> av: weren't you planning to run as well?
17:06:19 <av> fabiana, actually yes
17:06:41 <muelli_> I have a timeline proposed here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7227129/ I think it's fine. If you also think so, we can propose it to the Board.
17:07:21 <av> muelli_, looks fine to me
17:07:23 <muelli_> (it's actually the same as last year, only substracted "1" from every day...)
17:07:39 <fabiana> muelli_: looks fine to me too
17:07:49 <muelli_> that's 7 weeks to go. Should be doable, right?
17:08:10 <fabiana> hopefully 8D
17:08:23 <muelli_> well. 5, if we consider the opening of candidacies to be the start.
17:08:36 <av> actually yes, I'd start by committing to git and start populating the website with the information we can provide as soon as the Board will ack the timelines
17:08:53 <muelli_> yeah, I have the 2014/ directory ready, locally.
17:08:58 <av> awesome
17:09:26 <muelli_> dunno if I could or should commit (to a separate branch?)... I guess it's not really needed anyway.
17:10:03 <av> no need I'd say, we can wait a few more days to propose the timelines to the Board and commit them all together
17:10:14 <muelli_> I volunteer to propose that timeline, but if anybody is in the mood of writing emails, go ahead ;-)
17:10:17 <av> muelli_, can you mail the Board with the timeline?
17:10:34 <muelli_> yes. There is a meetbot command for that, right? :D
17:10:55 <av> #action Tobias to mail the Board with the proposed timeline (http://paste.ubuntu.com/7227129)
17:11:05 <av> muelli_, ok, thanks
17:11:17 <av> as soon as those are approved feel free to go ahead and commit 2014/
17:11:27 <muelli_> k. will do.
17:11:28 <muelli_> Do we have to consider anything from last year?
17:11:33 <muelli_> IIRC everything went well, right?
17:11:54 <av> we'll then have to decide who will run the elections, but let's wait a few more weeks for that until we clear up our minds
17:12:09 <av> muelli_, yeah, what I'd do is sending out the renewal mails a bit earlier this time
17:12:24 <muelli_> ah! Renewals. Something is broken, right?
17:12:32 <av> muelli_, btw I hacked a bit your script to send the past renewals to f-list
17:12:48 <av> I fixed your .my.cnf as well
17:13:08 <muelli_> cool. So things are working again? (or should be, at least :D)
17:13:15 <av> yup
17:13:29 <muelli_> also, have you committed changes to the script? It's managed on foundatoin-web, IIRC.
17:13:49 <av> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2014-April/msg00018.html
17:14:12 <av> muelli_, no, it was a local fix just to send out the march renewals
17:14:50 <av> seems the supported modes are only month, year and maybe one more (?)
17:15:44 <av> muelli_, anyway everything should be working now, what I'd do is mailing f-list and personal emails with the past 3 months + may renewals
17:15:47 <av> is that doable?
17:16:01 <fabiana> sorry guys, got a bit sidetracked with work
17:16:54 <av> fabiana, we're discussing about renewal emails and the broken script that did not send out any "You need renewals" mails the past two months
17:16:57 <muelli_> we should do that. I guess the script can get the member whose membership expired up to three month ago.
17:17:04 <av> awesome
17:17:20 <muelli_> where do I have to SSH to these days to try?
17:17:22 <fabiana> oh, I didn't notice that
17:17:34 <fabiana> muelli_: thanks for taking care of it
17:18:09 <muelli_> ah. meh. Different machine, with the SSH key not being known to GNOME.
17:18:29 <av> muelli_, webapps2 I'd say
17:18:41 <av> muelli_, where do you run the cronjobs?
17:18:43 <av> webapps2?
17:18:48 <muelli_> av: no idea
17:18:55 <av> let me see
17:19:07 <muelli_> used to be people IIRC. But I may be mistaken
17:19:25 <av> muelli_, confirmed, webapps2
17:19:29 <muelli_> cool
17:19:31 <av> yeah, people equals to webapps2
17:19:38 <av> given people itself points to the proxies
17:20:15 <av> so webapps2 should have the required access to the foundation database already
17:20:35 <av> muelli_, ok, so will you be able to send the past 3 months renewals the very first days of may?
17:21:13 <av> so that we cover march - april - may
17:21:30 <muelli_> av: heh. I can try at least.
17:21:53 <muelli_> It'd be good if the ssh key could be added: ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAADAQABAAABAQDGEjN6UObt1EDjXl7rBNaQaWJKuH4bTDVa/hs10e9acVc/4YzpbPvjz+5C0tQCjfXfj32jW9Nl7odcm+BhZ1exiklsE5YyIDc4XZ0EvvLHTEqnFcy0860yl/Mzh9IIO7CWRJ7CdN3E9J5ecrkHT87DKyl8n1YFMOmi5qu47G1rbd6PBk6AS8THWCcAL7TGM0Fe2yRkMIo36DBjNATZkwNmEynMRU9I7pJ5ysmsD/gsutB+DfsqBcTXk8JuQHnVVm48/x+CxwYdNuiYsx7RsftJ+U2Y6QjbRekxXhkvCQwjeH+UNLn53+6TQB168uXfNZU5UVj5Cmk7i2NKUMkskt7Z muelli@sapx230
17:21:57 <fabiana> and people should be able to renew/apply for membership until may 5th?
17:22:04 <muelli_> so I can use my laptop.
17:22:22 <av> before the 24th I'd say
17:22:24 <av> muelli_, ?
17:22:29 <av> muelli_, you can do that yourself
17:22:33 <muelli_> hah!
17:22:58 <av> we'll discuss the mango access in the second topic, but you should be able to add an additional SSH key yourself now :)
17:23:00 <muelli_> I think we stopped having a latest date of application and opted for "ASAP" in combination with "If it's too late, it's too late"/
17:23:05 <muelli_> niec
17:23:06 <av> yeah
17:23:24 <av> but I'd say let's not accept any renewal / new membership after the 24th
17:23:43 <av> I propose the 24th May as the latest day for renewals / new membership to be processe
17:23:46 <av> processed even
17:23:59 <av> on the 25th instructions are sent out to the electorate
17:24:18 <muelli_> right. The rule is to be a member before that date. IIRC.
17:24:27 <av> let's vote on that
17:24:28 <av> +1
17:24:31 <muelli_> to be eligible to vote for the election.
17:24:43 <muelli_> heh, we should have it in the rules already ;-)
17:24:53 <av> ah, cool :)
17:25:11 <av> adding an agreed just to be sure we don't forget
17:25:28 <av> #agreed No processing of renewals or new members after the 24th May
17:25:36 <muelli_> we can decide to double check that it is indeed in the rules once we've published them
17:25:41 <av> sure
17:26:00 <muelli_> embers of the GNOME Foundation as of 2013-05-22 are eligible to vote in the elections
17:26:09 <av> good
17:26:17 <av> just fix the date locally to not forget :)
17:26:21 <muelli_> As such, we can still process applications. But it won't result in the person being able to vote
17:26:26 <av> yeah
17:26:37 <av> won't that impact tokens?
17:27:04 <muelli_> if they are generated, then not.
17:27:13 <muelli_> and they should have been generated ;-)
17:27:17 <av> correct
17:27:22 <muelli_> FTR: 2014-05-21 is what I have locally.
17:27:43 <av> I'd extend it to 2014-05-24
17:28:39 <av> just to give a few more days for people to eventually catch up
17:29:11 <av> anything else on this topic?
17:29:27 <muelli_> It seems that this is the CANDIDATES_ANNOUNCED_DATE. Which makes some sense to me
17:29:40 <muelli_> (the 21st, that is)
17:29:49 <muelli_> so I'd leave it as is
17:30:36 <av> allright, works for me
17:30:45 <av> anything else on this topic?
17:31:08 <av> muelli_, what I care are renewal mails to be sent out in time to make sure no one is left behind
17:31:24 <av> and that is going to be sent out on the beginning of may anyway
17:31:27 <muelli_> yes. I will do it.
17:31:30 <av> thanks
17:31:39 <muelli_> other than that: Is our election supposed to work? :D
17:31:55 <muelli_> I expect yes, but just to double check that we have MySQL access, the VIEW is there, et al.
17:31:57 <av> #action Tobias to send out renewal mails both personally and to foundation-list at the beginning of May
17:32:18 <av> the database was imported as is from the old machine
17:32:22 <av> it *should* work
17:33:28 <muelli_> cool.
17:33:42 <muelli_> also exporting everything for backup reasons? ;-)
17:33:50 <muelli_> I will try when I experiment with the mailings.
17:34:08 <av> muelli, "| GRANT SELECT, INSERT, DELETE, SHOW VIEW ON `foundation`.* TO 'anonvoting'@'webapps2-back'"
17:34:29 <av> that should be all we need
17:34:36 <muelli_> cool
17:35:03 <av> ok, anything else on this topic?
17:35:46 <muelli_> Not that I can think of right now.
17:35:52 <av> fabiana, ?
17:36:23 <fabiana> good here
17:36:29 <av> k, let's go ahead
17:36:40 <av> #topic Active and inactive members of the Committee
17:37:04 <av> as you may be aware of I've been mailing m-c-private and then m-c mailing lists asking for who is active and who's not
17:37:17 <av> seems the committee has 3 active members out of 5
17:37:43 <av> Pedro and Federico did not respond to my pings and mails
17:39:01 <av> we should definitely look for new people and make sure the positions on the committee are kept by active members
17:39:50 <fabiana> av: would you rather reach out to people in private? or post an invite in foundation-list?
17:40:39 <av> fabiana, I originally thought Kat wanted to help out but she's busy as hell nowadays
17:40:52 <fabiana> yeah, I imagine
17:41:00 <muelli_> I'd publicly ask.
17:41:21 <av> muelli_, that's what we did the past times but it never took any good result
17:41:32 <av> at first people are interested, then suddenly disappear
17:41:33 <muelli_> right. I was not saying to not ask privately ;-)
17:41:42 <av> the only success we had is fabiana
17:41:43 <fabiana> av: thanks :P
17:41:45 <fabiana> haha
17:41:58 <av> :D
17:42:22 <av> fabiana has been amazing, she put a lot of work on the committee and helped us out a lot during the past year
17:42:33 <av> thanks for the hard work you've put on the committee fabiana
17:42:40 <muelli_> yeah!
17:42:42 <fabiana> :) thanks av
17:43:06 <fabiana> we had a bunch of new people join the foundation recently
17:43:09 <av> I'd also like to put on vote the removal of inactive members from the committee
17:43:11 <fabiana> maybe it's worth another try
17:43:34 <fabiana> I mean, with publicly asking and all
17:44:43 <av> Pedro and Federico have been serving the committee since a long time, especially in Pedro's case, but unfortunately I never saw any of them around processing a single application since months
17:45:27 <av> and them not replying a single mail on our mailing list is enough for me to say the lack an interest in helping out the team anymore
17:45:37 <muelli_> I agree.
17:45:37 <av> similar to what happened with the travel committee a while back
17:45:43 <fabiana> yep, agreed
17:46:09 <av> I'll make sure to announce the change on the committee and call for volunteers today
17:46:35 <av> #action Andrea to mail foundation-list announcing the changes on the committee and the request for possible volunteers to join and help out the team
17:47:14 <av> this should be enough on this matter, /me moves ahead
17:47:37 <av> #topic Script to sync Foundation's database to LDAP and @gnome.org mail aliases
17:48:17 <av> so I've started building a script that is populating the 'foundation' and 'mailaliases' group on LDAP
17:49:00 <muelli_> awesome!
17:49:00 <av> the script grabs the 'GNOME userid' from mango (this has its own 'userid' field on the foundation database on mysql) and populates the LDAP groups accordingly
17:49:26 <av> on that side, I enabled both Tobi and Fabiana to the 'Accounts' group on LDAP
17:49:44 <muelli_> more unification of our data. Maybe, in five years or so, we will only have a single set of non-redundant data \o/
17:50:03 <av> which allows you to check the GNOME's LDAP and found out whether a new member (or existing) has an LDAP account or not
17:50:10 <av> muelli_, exactly :) SSO is coming too
17:50:19 <av> and we'll make massive use of LDAP
17:50:44 <av> do you guys have any questions on your new mango capabilities?
17:50:59 <av> do you know how to lookup people and populate the relevant field accordingly?
17:51:14 <fabiana> av: not that I can think of right now.
17:51:22 <muelli_> heh. not so new as I had that interface before ;-) What happens if a userid is entered but the checkbox is not ticked?
17:51:32 <muelli_> "Has a cool 'gnome.org' mail alias" that is
17:51:44 <fabiana> will you update the wiki soon with the new steps? that will help me some
17:51:48 <muelli_> Also, Shall we tick "Foundation member" ?
17:52:01 <av> there won't be any need of touching anything else than the 'GNOME userid' field on the "Foundation members" area
17:52:08 <muelli_> cool.
17:52:09 <av> no need to tick anything on the user's page
17:52:20 <muelli_> that's easy.
17:52:30 <av> the script will handle everything on its own, including the creation of the alias
17:52:48 <fabiana> cool
17:52:50 <av> fabiana, yup, will add the needed instructions on the wiki today or most likely tomorrow
17:52:58 <fabiana> nice, thanks
17:53:20 <muelli_> how much work would it be to extend the LDAP schema by the fields we have in the database? I.e. last_renewed on, as it's the only field I think is of importance.
17:53:21 <av> #action Andrea to add mango instructions to create an account / lookup an existing account / add the relevant userid on the "Foundation members" area
17:54:25 <av> muelli_, not much on the LDAP side, the only issue I see is how Mango is currently designed to work
17:55:01 <av> mango is currently designed to cope with a mysql database when touching foundation members, I'd love seeing it rewritten in django
17:55:16 <av> including the full move of the foundation members and the missing fields on LDAP itself
17:55:48 <muelli_> hm.
17:56:15 <muelli_> but we probably could make it create an LDAP entry instead of a MySQL row when creating a user, no?
17:56:21 <muelli_> s/user/member/
17:56:47 <muelli_> (yeah, the Django solution is to be preferred, but it has been so long now :-/)
17:57:24 <av> (also all the scripts we use are written to talk to a mysql database and not to ldap itself)
17:58:13 <muelli_> right. let
17:58:18 <muelli_> let's defer that discussion.
17:58:45 <av> the only downside with the current approach is the need for the committee members to lookup LDAP before creating a new member
17:58:48 <av> or updating it
17:59:16 <muelli_> heh. I see many more downsides. The biggest one being that we have redundant data.
17:59:25 <av> yeah, that as well :/
18:00:33 <av> muelli, we should work out a mango replacement that talks to LDAP for all the things we need
18:00:43 <av> from there I can just move all the members to LDAP and add the missing schemas
18:00:58 <av> but that's not something we can do in 1 month
18:01:07 <muelli_> yeah. Let's do that right after we've updated bugzilla ;-)
18:01:16 <av> yeah, which is way more important...
18:01:44 <av> I'm going to add a few more functionalities to the script
18:02:16 <av> which is removing old aliases if last_renewed_date is > 2 + 6 months time
18:02:34 <muelli_> hm. automatic removal of email aliases?
18:02:51 <muelli_> doing it on demand sounds a bit nicer to me.
18:02:57 <av> in the case a member did not renew their membership within 6 months
18:03:50 <av> I must say keeping an alias adds no single load to our servers at all as you might have expected
18:04:16 <av> but the point is different, aliases are part of the benefits package we give to members
18:04:26 <muelli_> right.
18:04:58 <av> so theoretically when a membership lapses and it's not renewed within a specific amount of time we can discuss (6 months for example?) the benefits should be removed
18:05:16 <av> I'm not talking about removing a blog and its content for example
18:05:19 <muelli_> but taking things away out of envy, instead of out of necessity feels a bit bad.
18:05:56 <av> so would you keep all the benefits around even if the membership lapsed and was not renewed within 6 months?
18:06:31 <av> that removes the point of keeping an emeritus member status
18:06:58 <av> right now if you've been granted a benefit you keep it forever
18:07:03 <muelli_> I don't know. I don't have a generally applicable opinion on that. For now, it's just more work to remove the aliases and it might create friction. For pretty much no benefit on our side.
18:07:56 <av> what would be the difference between a member and a member with the membership expired?
18:08:08 <av> none except for the member to be able to vote
18:08:25 <muelli_> right.
18:08:47 <av> and on this matter, what's the point in keeping a two years membership when there's no difference between a member and a member with an expired membership?
18:09:06 <muelli_> and, well, at least I check whether the people an applicant refers to in her application are members.
18:10:08 <av> I'm wondering if keeping a two years duration for the membership is helping or not
18:10:31 <av> given the current situation where members and past members do have the same rights and benefit except not being able to vote
18:10:45 <muelli_> There is not much of a point. I appreciate that. In my opinion, creating a point by forcefully removing something with neither a need for doing so nor with actually getting a benefit (as in reduced cost, less management overhead, things like that), is bad.
18:11:33 <av> I agree, but the problem currently resides in how memberships are managed especially in relation with the two-years duration of the membership itself
18:11:56 <av> it makes no sense to keep a duration for the membership if members and past members equal
18:12:06 <muelli_> Well, but they are not.
18:13:02 <av> fabiana, what do you think on this matter?
18:13:28 <av> it's clear that Tobi has very good points against removing aliases after a certain amount of time
18:13:32 <muelli_> (FWIW: I don't feel strongly about automatically removing the aliases, and if you go ahead and make it happen, I'm all fine. I just don't think it's a good way of doing things)
18:14:39 <fabiana> I wouldn't like to do so before trying to reach out to the members in question before
18:15:05 <fabiana> some people might use the alias personally or professionally, so I think it's only fair to give them a heads-up before removing it
18:15:30 <muelli_> yeah. That's the absolute minimum I'd say.
18:15:34 <fabiana> I mean, we do fail with the renewal notices every now and then, and some people might just not see that message for whatever reason
18:15:47 <av> that's another good point, yeah
18:16:02 <av> fabiana, but how should we solve the member / past member debate?
18:16:12 <av> I mean right now they have the same benefits
18:16:14 <muelli_> which touches a point I was trying to make on the mailing list: if we knew that an alias has not been used for half a year, we might just as well go ahead and nuke it.
18:16:28 <fabiana> I agree with you, I don't think they should have the same benefits
18:16:29 <av> kittykat, welcome :)
18:16:46 <muelli_> but that's wrong! There's still the ability to vote.
18:16:47 <av> muelli_, yes, but checking /var/log/maillog can be hard
18:17:01 <fabiana> I'm just saying that it's a matter of whether we have the time and resources to make it in an appropriate way right away
18:17:14 <av> log rotates, might get lost somewhere, we should check for both outgoing and incoming mails
18:17:20 <muelli_> av: I see :-\ I guess only logs is not sufficient.
18:17:35 <av> the alias might have been registered to a mailing list that still sends out mails to that alias
18:17:39 <av> which results in a false positive
18:18:31 <av> kittykat, feel free to join in :)
18:18:52 <av> we covered the "we are looking for new people" topic before, but feel free to step in
18:19:25 <kittykat> ah, ok… thanks for inviting me to join, but I have to decline as I've got more than enough stuff on my plate as it is
18:19:34 <kittykat> so I probably wouldn't be very effective
18:19:53 <fabiana> av: can we send an automatic message to members 3m after expiration?
18:20:01 <kittykat> I would like to suggest that aruna would be a good choice to join the committee instead of me
18:20:04 <fabiana> then maybe the automatic removal in 4m/5m
18:20:04 <av> sure
18:20:18 <muelli_> but would we have a way to lift the automatic removal?
18:20:20 <fabiana> (in case we get no replies)
18:20:50 <av> muelli_, lifting the automatic removal would be renewing the membership or adding the past member as emeritus
18:21:05 <muelli_> and as for the automated mail: We could use the "Your membership expired" mail we currently send. A second mail (sent from different infrastructure :D) sounds like a good idea though.
18:21:05 <fabiana> exactly
18:21:23 <av> kittykat, :( I'm going to send out a little announcement to foundation-list about this given we are looking for new member
18:21:41 <fabiana> muelli_: yeah, I think giving two warnings is fair
18:21:43 <muelli_> Yeah, I wouldn't be entirely happy with that, but as I've said: I'd be fine.
18:21:45 <av> kittykat, can you poke aruna about this so maybe she can reply the announcement and get in touch with me? (if she has time)
18:21:54 <kittykat> av, will do
18:22:10 <fabiana> kittykat: is she aruna on IRC? I'd be happy to poke her as well :)
18:22:11 <kittykat> aruna is sensible and likes to do things the right way
18:22:15 <av> muelli_, I'd say, adding a text on the current "Your membership expired" mail saying the alias is due to removal in 6 months from that date
18:22:26 <muelli_> fabiana: yes. It is fair. But again: It's taking action only to make a point. At least as long as we don't have benefits of actually doing so.
18:22:27 <av> muelli, then the script can mail that alias 3 months after that
18:22:32 <kittykat> fabiana: yep, as "aruna" :)
18:22:50 <kittykat> (although not right this moment, apparently)
18:22:51 <av> kittykat, awesome, that's definitely what the committee is looking for :-)
18:23:08 <muelli_> and, for starters, I'd rather want to see actual membership data being deleted after a generous grace period than the email aliases ;-)
18:23:22 <fabiana> muelli_: +1 on that
18:23:42 <av> muelli_, would you remove the entire membership entry?
18:23:47 <muelli_> and it's a bit hard to defend us deleting the alias but not the membership data.
18:24:18 <muelli_> yeah, absolutely. It's of close to no interest whether there is someone from eight years ago who had a membership.
18:24:45 <muelli_> at least right now as we don't have any use for that data.
18:25:05 <av> ok, so as a resume:
18:25:27 <av> 1. add text into the current "Your membership expired" automatic mail about the removal of the alias within 6 months
18:25:35 <muelli_> And we don't need that data for renewals, not only because we officially don't do renewals any more, but also because we wouldn't consider things from 5 years ago.
18:26:00 <av> 2. remove very old members data (we'll think about how much old the membership should be for the removal to take effect)
18:26:16 <fabiana> what if we make it 2+1y for complete expiration? I believe a year is plenty of time to renew your membership
18:26:52 <av> so last_renewed_date + 1y for the data to be removed?
18:27:32 <fabiana> and it gives enough time to people that care about the project, but can't currently contribute for whatever personal reasons
18:27:38 <fabiana> av: I'd say so
18:27:53 <muelli_> that probably makes sense. I wouldn't want to decide on a specific time just yet without even having looked at the data.
18:28:03 <av> agreed
18:28:23 <av> we have a total of 1k entries on the database FYI
18:28:35 <av> and a total of 300 active members (more or less)
18:28:38 <fabiana> yep, makes sense
18:29:11 <av> muelli, I'll implement more stuff on the script, so it'll act as a real cleaner on demand
18:29:27 <muelli_> the entries in the membership table you mean?
18:29:31 <av> yes
18:29:35 <muelli_> cool.
18:30:15 <fabiana> I have to leave pretty much now, guys. do we have anything else in the agenda?
18:30:26 <muelli_> as for the aliases: If  possible I'd want to have a way to lift the removal. I can imagine several reasons why someone would not want to become an emeritus member just yet. One being getting a kid and not really having the time to care about anything else for 6 months.
18:30:31 <av> correct details: 309 active vs 1022 total rows
18:31:00 <fabiana> wow
18:31:01 <av> muelli, so ideally we can just think about removing the data all together
18:31:24 <av> without caring about the alias et all (which will be removed automatically anyway if a member is removed from the database)
18:31:48 <av> if we implement the script that way or we can just leave it on just-add mode and leave the aliases there
18:31:56 <av> even if a member was removed from the database
18:31:58 <muelli_> ah
18:32:33 <av> right now the script only adds new aliases
18:32:50 <av> so removing a member's data from the database will keep the alias around
18:33:54 <fabiana> av: muelli_ need to run.
18:34:03 <fabiana> av: will you post the minutes later?
18:34:24 <muelli_> thanks fabiana!
18:34:48 <av> fabiana, the minutes will be generated by meetbot :)
18:34:59 <fabiana> kudos to meetbot :)
18:34:59 <av> I'll update the wiki with the minutes et all though
18:35:12 <fabiana> thanks guys, later!
18:35:21 <av> thanks everyone attending!
18:35:24 <av> #endmeeting