19:23:01 <benzea> #startmeeting
19:23:01 <GNOMie> Meeting started Wed Jul 20 19:23:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is benzea. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:23:01 <GNOMie> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:23:39 <benzea> #topic Status updates
19:23:56 <kittykat> zana, can you sign up at https://squareup.com/reader and see if we can get a free contactless reader please?
19:24:01 <benzea> #info Benjamin asked about a children carpet, we can probably lend children stuff room the AStA out of the Kinderkiste
19:24:03 <kittykat> this is for taking card payments at events
19:24:15 <benzea> I need to ping the AStA about that, but the stuff is currently not being used apparently
19:25:03 <benzea> we can also have the BBQ from the physics (which means we have at least two available, if not more)
19:25:20 <benzea> I also got back with the faculty, rooms are looking good
19:25:24 <marina> benzea: thank you for an awesome page about things to do with kids!!!
19:25:28 <benzea> they apparently reserved a few more than we actually needed
19:25:36 <benzea> marina: that was stefw!
19:25:56 <marina> benzea: I noticed that you thought two kids were listed, but it's just one kid - owen and myself are the parents :)
19:26:29 <benzea> I hope to talk to the janitor sometime soon (TM), i.e. when the university has figured out who will be there
19:26:40 <benzea> which hopefully clarifies some organizational points
19:26:50 <marina> benzea: we'll have owen's mom with us to watch our kid, so we don't need any specific help - I'm most interested in connecting with other people with kids, in case there are any around our son's age for them to play together
19:26:55 <benzea> I am also talk to the person at the faculty in a couple of days
19:27:05 <marina> thank you stefw!
19:27:13 <benzea> marina: yeah, I was misreading it when I quickly looked over the wiki page edit e-mail :)
19:27:19 <marina> :)
19:28:21 <benzea> marina: cool
19:28:32 <benzea> marina: hope it works, lets see how many kids show up overall :)
19:29:06 <marina> benzea: I also added "or interested in connecting with others for play dates" to the page - hope that's ok
19:29:15 <benzea> sure
19:29:59 <benzea> if you can organize yourself that would be great
19:30:19 <benzea> also, we won't officially supervise children and such for legal reasons, I think
19:30:31 <benzea> (i.e. I have no idea what kind of stuff I would need to look out for)
19:31:00 <benzea> any other news?
19:31:28 <afranke> As of today I have my train tickets!
19:31:33 <afranke> ;)
19:32:00 <benzea> yay!
19:32:13 <benzea> muelli: thanks for the info, I'll forward to hte linuxtag people
19:32:17 <marina> benzea: yes, understood, we'll have someone supervising out kid and I'll just keep an eye on the page to see if anyone else lists theirs
19:32:19 <benzea> after looking over it
19:32:27 <benzea> marina: perfect
19:33:03 <benzea> muelli: should we discuss your last mail?
19:33:11 <marina> benzea: I wanted to check in on the women's dinner - should I ask Moira directly?
19:33:33 <benzea> marina: I think the plan was to reserve a table for ~20 or so on saturday evening
19:33:36 <benzea> mms?
19:33:39 <benzea> #topic social events
19:33:45 <benzea> then it is even on topic! ;-)
19:33:48 <mms> yes i guess you can :-)
19:34:03 <mms> I booked a table for 15 at the aposto for saturday
19:34:12 <mms> but happy to discuss alternatives marina :-)
19:34:31 <marina> benzea, mms: let's make a page like https://wiki.gnome.org/GUADEC/2015/WomensDinner for people to RSVP
19:34:42 <benzea> btw.: Total registrations: 72 (male: 48, female: 9, other/empty: 15)
19:35:08 <marina> mms: 15 sounds like a good placeholder for the reservation
19:35:18 <marina> mms: thank you for making it :)
19:35:43 <benzea> marina: doesn't it work to simply grab everyone in the evening?
19:35:56 <benzea> and maybe also guide them back to the main social event later?
19:36:04 <marina> benzea: it's better if people can plan on it
19:36:20 <marina> benzea: we'd guide people back to the main social event
19:36:34 <benzea> marina: well, my plan would have been to put it into the social event schedule; we simply don't have a full schedule yet
19:36:41 <marina> benzea, mms: I'd also like to e-mail gnome-women-list about it
19:36:42 <kittykat> I would like to see a clarification on whether the dinner will be open to everyone or not, as it sounded like different people assumed different things on the point
19:37:04 <benzea> ah, hehe
19:37:05 <kittykat> last I heard was that it was open to all
19:37:10 * benzea assumed it is generally open
19:37:47 <marina> kittykat: same as last year, it would be open to women (cis and trans) and genderqueer people
19:38:11 <marina> kittykat, benzea: it's important to have events for underrepresented/marginalized people
19:38:41 <kittykat> if that's the case, then I would not want to see it listed as an official event as it is discriminatory
19:38:49 <afranke> Same here.
19:38:53 <benzea> well, defining who is and is not in that grup exactly is hard
19:39:10 <benzea> opening up to everyone who cares about tit is easy
19:39:11 <marina> kittykat: supporting events for minorities is not discriminatory
19:39:17 <afranke> Being an event to promote them doesn't mean it has to be restricted…
19:39:20 <kittykat> on the other hand, I would like to see an event to which everyone is invited in support of under-represented/marginalized people
19:39:36 <marina> kittykat: that can be done as a BoF or a separate event
19:39:49 <kittykat> I don't think it's good enough
19:40:07 <marina> kittykat: I covered that in my e-mail to the board and to the guadec organizers
19:40:17 <benzea> if you advertise it s "womans dinner" that should be discouraging enoigh
19:40:27 <afranke> marina, well it was not clear as I had the same understanding as kittykat.
19:40:56 <benzea> if someone actually disturbs there badly, i would be fine with kicking them out on sunday or for bofs
19:41:13 <afranke> Restricting access to this event is a form of discrimination, which we don't want to see as per the CoC.
19:41:56 <benzea> afranke: that anti discriminatory rule isn't explicit anymore
19:42:08 <kittykat> I agree with what benzea said: even unrestricted access to the event would still protect it as a supportive environment under the CoC
19:42:14 <marina> here is what I said in the e-mail:
19:42:15 <marina> Finally, "GUADEC does not engage in discrimination. Everyone is
19:42:15 <marina> welcome at all conference events." reads like it might preclude having
19:42:15 <marina> GNOME Women's Dinner as an official conference event. Women's dinner
19:42:15 <marina> is a very important part of supporting women's participation in GNOME,
19:42:16 <marina> and generally, minority groups should be able to determine what are
19:42:18 <marina> the activities that are most supportive of their participation in the
19:42:20 <marina> community. Women's events are one such option as they enable attendees
19:42:22 <marina> to discuss shared concerns in a more comfortable environment and help
19:42:24 <marina> women who are new to the community meet, gain knowledge, and be
19:42:26 <marina> inspired by more senior women in the community, whom they otherwise
19:42:28 <marina> might not have a chance to talk to. After a day of going to talks
19:42:30 <marina> where you might be the only or one of very few women in the room, and
19:42:32 <marina> possibly feeling like an impostor, it's very empowering and
19:42:34 <marina> re-normalizing to be in a group of women contributors who are all
19:42:36 <marina> doing awesome things for GNOME.
19:43:07 <benzea> marina: minorities should be integrated wit hthe whole community
19:43:22 <marina> benzea: minorities should be able to decide what is most supportive for them
19:43:29 <benzea> marina: you can also see the positive side of having a few key community members joining
19:43:35 <benzea> it is a great networking oportunity
19:43:37 <marina> benzea: for many years, it has been the women's dinner
19:44:24 <marina> benzea: for this particular event, there has been interest in having it as just a women's gathering
19:44:29 <kittykat> and for many years, female interns stopped talking to other community members after the dinner
19:44:54 <marina> benzea: you can have other events where you have women and other minorities and allies
19:45:11 <benzea> marina: well, I care about the community as a whole being inclusive
19:45:17 <marina> benzea: but it's best to let the minority group decide what is best for them
19:45:27 <benzea> marina: what I don't want to happen is a parallel community forming really
19:45:36 <benzea> and that is basically what kittykat is saying there
19:45:53 * benzea has no datapoints either way to back any of this up
19:46:05 <kittykat> it is good to provide a supportive environment, but not one which is exclusive
19:46:12 <marina> benzea: women and other minorities find it helpful to form support groups amongst themselves
19:46:19 <afranke> benzea, "Remember that sexist, racist or discriminatory language and imagery are not appropriate."
19:46:41 <benzea> afranke: hm?
19:47:02 <kittykat> benzea: are there more points we need to cover today? if there are, can this discussion be moved until after the meeting or to the end?
19:47:50 <benzea> yes, there are
19:47:51 <benzea> I wanted to talk about drinks at the venue
19:48:09 <afranke> marina, is the minority deciding or are you?
19:48:24 <kittykat> benzea: your call then
19:48:25 <benzea> #topic Beverage availability/selling
19:48:33 <benzea> lets do this first
19:48:46 <marina> afranke: I can consult with a group of women who have been attending the women's dinner and are coming to GUADEC this year
19:48:50 <benzea> mms: marina said you might have some deal with the scheck in center?
19:49:06 <afranke> marina, let's get back to that after the meeting.
19:49:13 <marina> afranke: sure
19:49:32 <mms> yes, we get 200 0.5L bottles of water (100 still / 100 sparkling)
19:49:55 <kittykat> mms: if it's going to be hot, might be a good idea to weigh it more heavily towards still
19:50:13 <mms> no, we go with what we get
19:50:28 <mms> and germans are crazy about the sparkles, you know
19:50:34 <benzea> hehe
19:50:43 <benzea> so, that basically covers speaker/volunteer water maybe
19:51:00 <benzea> mms: tha twas free?
19:51:05 <mms> yes
19:51:07 <afranke> mms, yeah but it's an international audience, not a German one.
19:51:18 <kittykat> afranke: not a big deal if it's free
19:51:26 <kittykat> we can top it up ourselves as it runs low
19:51:31 <mms> and I suggest: one bottle free for each person at least, then cover the speakers, then volonteers, then the rest for free for all again
19:51:54 <kittykat> benzea: did you find out if tap water in the building is potable?
19:52:00 <kittykat> or was it moggi who was asking?
19:52:07 <benzea> kittykat: I think it is not, will be sure later
19:52:17 <mms> benzea: it should be
19:52:19 <kittykat> if it's not, can we have a water cooler thingy?
19:52:22 <mms> we are in Germany here
19:52:35 <kittykat> mms: apparently there was some sort of problem with pipes or something like that
19:52:35 <benzea> mms: there are some issues in that building with old piping :-(
19:52:53 <benzea> lead and cadminum[1~high [4~ levels
19:52:54 <benzea> or some such
19:52:54 <benzea> yeah, it sucks
19:53:00 <benzea> (that is only the core days)
19:53:24 <benzea> so, what we could do is get a lot of 0.5 bottles of mixed drinks including soft drinks
19:53:40 <benzea> I guess it is a out 200€ for the cooling trailer + price of drinks
19:53:42 <benzea> about
19:53:58 * kittykat thinks it's best to go for only water as that tends to be one of the better ways to re-hydrate
19:54:00 <benzea> (not quite the number I heard was 150€ for two days or so, but we have 4 days so, no clue)
19:54:14 <benzea> it would basically be a service that we sell the stuff cheap
19:54:21 <kittykat> we'll also need some bottles for the board and adboard meetings
19:54:25 <afranke> mms, that's 200 bottles total, or per day?
19:54:36 <mms> no total only
19:54:56 <benzea> we already need that amount of water for the picnic basically
19:54:58 <afranke> That's not much.
19:55:14 <benzea> yeah, as I said, helper/speaker water might be just covered :)
19:55:19 <mms> it is not indeed, but it is better than not having those 200 bottles
19:55:34 <benzea> yep
19:55:42 <afranke> Sure.
19:55:50 <afranke> 👍 for getting them.
19:55:58 * benzea agrees
19:56:03 * kittykat too
19:56:22 <benzea> but it doesn't solve the big chunk unfortunately
19:56:55 <benzea> so, basically, if we want anything cooled, I think we need a trailer
19:57:13 <benzea> and if we get that, we could easily sell stuff and offset the cost
19:57:14 <muelli> or those fountains...
19:57:26 <benzea> yeah
19:57:40 <benzea> there are a number of those in the building for good reasons …
19:58:03 <benzea> so, the first question is whether people think that offering soft drinks is  good thing or not
19:58:37 <benzea> i.e. 1. would people buy them? 2. can the front desk sell them without issues?
19:59:05 <benzea> (and I guess we might also get some for the bof days)
19:59:40 <mms> I think we should offer water, tea, coffee (and we said we do o-juice during the breaks) - if people want anything fizzy sugary (not so healthy) they can buy it on the way to the venue (at the scheck-in or the edeka)
20:00:14 <muelli> s/offer/give away/
20:00:19 <benzea> fair enough, then we need one of those water dispensers in addition to the 200 bottles
20:00:25 <kittykat> I agree that water all day, and tea/coffee at breaks
20:01:07 <benzea> alright, another thing to ask the janitor about probably
20:01:17 <benzea> or just check who can supply that
20:01:47 <mms> can you ask him too whether the lead / cadmium problem has been fixed?
20:01:54 <benzea> yeah
20:02:05 <benzea> mms: but I doubt it, probably quite complicated to acutally fix
20:02:53 <benzea> so, for the picnic we just buy drinks separately (on the day)?
20:03:07 <benzea> #agreed we will not sell soft drinks at the venue
20:03:13 * afranke has done some plumbing these last days… and refuses to help fix the piping issue at KIT.
20:03:36 <benzea> haha
20:03:50 <mms> :)
20:04:03 <mms> yes for the picnic
20:04:17 <benzea> ok, I think that is it for now
20:04:22 <benzea> #acgreed will we will look into water dispensers for attendees
20:04:35 <benzea> #undo
20:04:35 <GNOMie> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x265e150>
20:04:59 <benzea> #acgreed will e will look into water dispensers for attendees
20:05:01 <benzea> dammit
20:05:04 <benzea> #undo
20:05:04 <GNOMie> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x262c690>
20:05:10 <benzea> wait
20:05:17 * benzea now undid too much
20:05:22 <benzea> #agreed we will not sell soft drinks at the venue
20:05:46 * benzea notes he has a slow internet connection right now
20:05:48 <benzea> #undo
20:05:48 <GNOMie> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x265ec90>
20:05:56 <benzea> #topic Beverages at venue
20:06:00 <benzea> #agreed we will not sell soft drinks at the venue
20:06:14 <benzea> #agreed we will have water dispensers for attendees
20:06:17 <benzea> now
20:06:23 <benzea> anything else?
20:06:44 <benzea> mms, muelli do we need to talk about sponsors?
20:06:53 <mms> it would be really good to see a schedule soon so that the schedule of activities around can be finalized
20:07:28 <benzea> mms: https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/schedule_sketches
20:07:34 <benzea> and https://2016.guadec.org/schedule/ is actually quite acurate
20:07:42 <muelli> depends. I hope not. I hope that it's fine to trying to get a party organised.
20:07:58 <mms> yeah!!!!
20:07:59 <mms> cool
20:08:00 <mms> thanks
20:08:17 <benzea> assuming that kittykat actually put the latest version on the etherpad
20:08:29 <benzea> but I think it is quite acurate even if not completely correct
20:09:03 <benzea> mms: that has been there and unmodified for weeks! :)
20:09:24 <benzea> mms: ah, btw. there is apparently quite a large gastro fridge in the akk
20:09:40 <kittykat> erm, I've got on my TODO to work on this today
20:09:59 <benzea> mms: I'll talk to our AKK person sometime next week to figure out the details; there is a dota streaming event in parallel
20:10:16 <benzea> so we might need to coordinate a bit with them (but unlikely to be much of a collision, and we were earlier)
20:10:33 <benzea> I'll try to provide some photos or so later
20:10:45 <mms> ok, cool
20:11:00 <benzea> kittykat: hehe, sure; but most things are correct, except for shuffling around the afternon break a bit maybe
20:11:46 <mms> and from what time on in the morning can we access the akk?
20:12:05 <benzea> ok, anything else?
20:12:05 <benzea> wpuh
20:12:05 <benzea> that is a very good question
20:12:32 <benzea> i'll need to ask
20:12:45 <benzea> mms: thanks for pointing that out!
20:13:40 <benzea> #action benzea to check back with AKK supervisor about rentals/kitchen/opening time
20:14:03 <mms> thanks for checking :)
20:14:18 <benzea> it really must be me who does it :)
20:14:31 <benzea> mms: anything else we need to discuss some time about thursday or friday food?
20:14:40 <benzea> or should we do that separately?
20:14:54 <mms> I wanted to send around what I suggest for the picinic
20:15:03 <givascu> kittykat: Is it possible to receive a confirmation that you have received my receipt for travel sponsorship?
20:15:12 <mms> I will try to do that tomorrow morning in the train
20:15:29 <benzea> mms: cool
20:15:33 <mms> and then I will have to update the shopping list you created
20:15:41 <benzea> mms: oh, btw. we have the car from moggi that we can use
20:15:43 <benzea> for shopping
20:15:49 <mms> we will have a quick additional call on Friday again to talk about the schedule, right?
20:15:58 <mms> oh cool!!!!
20:16:10 <mms> moggi: thanks a million
20:16:13 <benzea> (schedule not in the sense of talk schedule :))
20:16:23 <mms> no, the one of tasks to be done
20:16:26 <benzea> that is primarily interesting if we want to drive to the metro or so
20:17:03 <muelli> hrm. So moggi will need to drive it?
20:17:03 <benzea> right
20:17:03 <benzea> #topic Sponsors
20:17:19 <benzea> muelli: nope, the insurance allows anyone to drive
20:17:38 <kittykat> givascu: you will receive a confirmation once your receipts are looked at
20:17:51 <benzea> muelli: if we are going to offer that sponsored dinner thing
20:17:56 <kittykat> pending requests take priority over receipts as reimbursements will only be made end of august
20:18:01 <benzea> then the question is, how much earning do we have
20:18:07 <givascu> kittykat: OK, thanks!
20:18:30 <benzea> what we had in the brochure at the start (Z10) is very cheap, and would have been like 2k earning, I think
20:18:57 <muelli> benzea: I think that's not a good question to ask.  But the answer is: A party. Happy guests and a happy company.
20:19:04 <mms> no, we said that there would be 2k sponsoring for an evening event, not 2k earnings
20:19:45 <benzea> well, the calculation was for that particular case …
20:19:56 <benzea> which was a very cheap event, but problematic as you know
20:20:42 <mms> exactly. and this event or option has been taken by the swiss company
20:21:11 <mms> now we have an additional company, offering to offer a good time to attendees at no costs for us
20:22:05 <muelli> hopefully no cost.
20:22:27 <muelli> but I'd even spend on that. It's a very nice location, very nice beer, very nice food.
20:22:27 <benzea> right, so we also put them down as "supporter" than in the list a
20:22:42 <muelli> spend money, that is.
20:24:37 <benzea> argh, connection issues again
20:24:50 * benzea is a bit unsure
20:25:22 <benzea> but if no one complains, whatever; i am just saying that the z10 plan had plenty of profit in the calculation
20:25:55 <benzea> (which is a bit counter intiutive at the pricr maybe)
20:26:01 <muelli> ...
20:26:23 <muelli> We're not entirely needing to be cheap it seems. A party at 0 EUR should be affordable.
20:27:00 <benzea> also, would we actually want to keep asocial event for days in a row?
20:27:30 <mms> yes
20:27:40 <benzea> four
20:28:03 <benzea> ok, so the suggestion is to do the 5k thing
20:28:29 * benzea notes.that he might cut freedrinks on saturday then
20:28:37 <afranke> From past experience, it's better not to have something every night.
20:28:38 <muelli> well. we're only trying for now. They may as well find it too expensive.
20:28:52 <benzea> yeah
20:29:05 <benzea> dunno, I would add at least 1k€ profit … I know …
20:29:30 <benzea> basicall force supporter package
20:29:31 <muelli> instead of having free food and beer, happy guests and a happy sponsor?!
20:29:37 * muelli shakes his head
20:29:53 * afranke is all for free stuff. :)
20:30:01 <benzea> heh
20:30:16 <benzea> whatever, alright
20:30:18 <muelli> srsly.
20:30:37 <benzea> I see a social event thing as a marketing space
20:30:59 <benzea> and yes, that means to me that I figure it should make a profit of some sort
20:31:09 <benzea> and not be a pure zero sum
20:31:15 <benzea> but I do see that one can see that differently
20:31:22 <muelli> and the four events boil down to a bbq for a dozen people,  a picknick where everybody has to make heir own food and a cheap bar wiht no food at all. That's hardly something every night.
20:32:03 <mms> I thought the social events are to bring people together in a nice ambience to foster connections?
20:32:10 <benzea> *shrug*
20:32:11 <benzea> sure
20:32:28 <benzea> yeah, you can easily argue that having another social event in itself is worth enough
20:32:53 <benzea> muelli: ok, go ahead, just don't make a loss please
20:33:03 <mms> :)
20:33:04 <benzea> well, not please
20:33:45 <benzea> I still don't like the idea of having a financial risk associated with it right now
20:33:48 <benzea> at least it is not planned right now
20:33:56 <benzea> and we don't have a very large mass to work with
20:34:29 <benzea> ok, that is it for today I thikn
20:34:35 <benzea> we are already over the time limit really
20:34:44 <benzea> anything else? otherwise I'll close the meeting
20:35:18 <benzea> #endmeeting