19:15:10 <benzea> #startmeeting
19:15:10 <GNOMie> Meeting started Wed Jul 13 19:15:10 2016 UTC.  The chair is benzea. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:15:10 <GNOMie> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:15:38 <benzea> hm, what do people think we need to talk about today?
19:15:42 * moggi is here as well
19:15:53 <moggi> benzea: a summary of our meeting from yesterday
19:16:00 <benzea> there are not a lot of updates from my side; except that i talked to moggi a bit yesterday
19:16:26 <benzea> #topic Shopping/Drinks
19:16:32 <benzea> moggi: do you want to sumarize :P
19:16:58 <benzea> (while I obviously have the notes)
19:17:20 <benzea> so, basically we were discussiong a bit what shopping we will need to do
19:17:22 <benzea> and some logistics
19:17:35 <benzea> moggi may be able to bring a car
19:17:50 <benzea> we can get permits to drive on the campus via the student council (fs etec)
19:18:03 <benzea> we could probably also get metro cards if we want to go there
19:18:10 <moggi> the high level summary is that we created a big shopping list and did some considerations on how to eecute the social events
19:18:51 <moggi> we talked a bit about drinks during the conference days to handle the water problem at the venue
19:19:01 <benzea> I think the main part that might be worth discussing a bit now is in how far we want to sell drinks at the venue
19:19:05 <benzea> or hand out
19:20:10 <benzea> basically, we could either go full scale and get a lot of stuff (probably a refrigeration trailer) and sell drinks at pretty much no profit
19:20:56 <benzea> or we could focus on only water, similar to how we will have coffee and maybe a bit more (moira was suggestiong juices in the morning, I think)
19:21:39 <benzea> either way, there is some logistics involved with all of that
19:21:47 <afranke> Are there vending machines that can provide Coke & stuff if we decide on only water?
19:21:51 <benzea> nope
19:21:53 <mms> I have talked to the Scheck-In ceter this morning, they will tell me by friday whether they sponsor drinks
19:22:11 <mms> but there are shops between the hotel and the venue
19:22:11 <benzea> afranke: they require having a university card
19:22:17 <moggi> afranke: not really, nearly all vending machines only accept university cards
19:22:24 <afranke> I'm leaning towards doing as few as possible but doing it well, especially considering you'll already have your hands full with other stuff.
19:22:26 <benzea> there is the sheck in centere and the other edeka, yep
19:22:43 <benzea> mms: interesting
19:22:50 <moggi> my proposal was to only offer water for nearly the price that we pay
19:22:55 <mms> my suggestion: wait with this discussion for next week
19:23:04 <benzea> mms: ok, sounds fair to me
19:23:09 <moggi> so something like 50 cent for a half liter bottle
19:23:16 <dperpeet> yeah, makes sense to wait on feedback from possible sponsors
19:23:17 <mms> that sounds ok too
19:23:34 <afranke> I guess there will be something for the speakers, right?
19:23:48 <moggi> yeap, speakers are independent of that
19:23:54 <afranke> Cool.
19:23:54 <benzea> mms: while a bit on topic; the price that you mentioend was the sum for everything?
19:24:01 <dperpeet> are we allowed to have a drinks-trailer park there?
19:24:02 <mms> yes
19:24:07 <benzea> afranke: but do share a logistical issue
19:24:10 <dperpeet> at the university
19:24:46 <benzea> dperpeet: why wouldn't you be allowed to park one?
19:24:51 <benzea> dperpeet: main issue is getting power obviously
19:24:55 <dperpeet> near the venue
19:25:06 * benzea doesn't see an issue with that
19:25:08 <dperpeet> some are self-powered
19:25:38 <benzea> dperpeet: an alternative may be to get some stuff through the AKK; but I am not sure how much space they have and such
19:25:56 <benzea> (especially in the interest of refregiating offered water)
19:26:12 <muelli> moggi: wouldn't the logistics involved in selling at 50ct per bottle be more of a hassle than just handing out the bottles for free?  if there are 150 people who drink 3 bottles on 3 days, it may not be worth it. Esp. if we're good with the budget.
19:26:27 <dperpeet> to be fair, room temperature is fine for water
19:26:35 <benzea> fair enough
19:26:48 <benzea> muelli: that is a possibility in general, yes
19:26:51 <dperpeet> we could stack crates of water against a wall
19:26:55 <dperpeet> inside
19:27:07 <dperpeet> be they sponsored or not
19:27:30 <dperpeet> and maybe get a fridge
19:27:39 <dperpeet> (proper drinks fridge)
19:27:42 <benzea> yeah, but if we hand it out for free; I would probably go with larger bottles and let people use mugs
19:27:52 <dperpeet> cleaning? :S
19:28:00 <benzea> dperpeet: we have that anyways
19:28:05 <benzea> dperpeet: for coffee and such
19:28:21 <benzea> (and we will have 400 mugs in stock)
19:28:23 <moggi> muelli: it quickly adds up
19:28:34 <muelli> moggi: yeah, but to smth around 500 EUR.
19:29:06 <moggi> muelli: yeap, but we have many of these small sums
19:29:08 <muelli> and it doesn't seem we need to be cheap like that to even save on water.
19:29:13 <benzea> muelli: lets say 35¢ per bottle (with loss of deposit), you would get 2*attendees*days
19:29:34 <benzea> ah, alright, that is less than 500€ :)
19:29:58 <dperpeet> and makes people feel better
19:30:14 <benzea> you mean handing it out for free?
19:30:15 <dperpeet> do we have someone on the team with a university card?
19:30:18 <dperpeet> benzea, yes
19:30:22 <afranke> BTW I would heavily insist on Pfand.
19:30:24 <moggi> dperpeet: yes
19:30:24 <benzea> sure, we have a couple
19:30:40 <benzea> afranke: it is not possible to keep track of if you do it for free
19:30:43 <dperpeet> but if I remember correctly the vending machine prices are rather steep
19:30:51 <benzea> I don't remember
19:30:58 <benzea> and they will be empty really quick anyways
19:31:05 <moggi> yeap, they are more in the area of 1.50�
19:31:06 <afranke> benzea, "Please be nice and bring back the bottle instead of throwing it away"
19:31:17 <benzea> afranke: of course, tell people
19:31:28 <benzea> afranke: but expect them to take it with them in the evening and such stuff
19:31:52 <benzea> tbh. I don't know what to expect, but would calculate at a 20% loss or so
19:31:57 <dperpeet> if we sell bottles, then the price is > own price + our deposit
19:32:04 <muelli> and then..? We make two poeple go to Rewe and throw the bottles into the machine every evening? For about 250 EUR?  I'd rather crowdsource that...
19:32:30 <dperpeet> actually, large bottles are less likely to be taken
19:32:34 <dperpeet> if we do it for free
19:33:03 <afranke> muelli, my main point is bottles not going to garbage.
19:33:05 <benzea> yeah, some will be of course (which is completely fine)
19:33:12 <dperpeet> but maybe we should wait until we know about sponsoring
19:33:16 <afranke> People outside of Germany are not used to bringing them back.
19:33:20 <benzea> afranke: sure, just inform people that they are worth 25¢ each
19:33:40 <muelli> afranke: worry not so much. The system in Germany is quite elaborated ;-) There will be people picking those bottles up.
19:34:21 <benzea> muelli: one more reason, we don't want homeless people lingering around for those :-P
19:34:39 <muelli> ...
19:34:59 <benzea> whatever, it all adds up; even if it is "just" 500€, that is quite a lot of money
19:35:32 <benzea> so I am not really happy to simply decide to make that spending (even if I do agree that is a sane idea)
19:35:55 <benzea> anyway, lets wait for the pending respond to mms
19:36:02 <afranke> I thought we'd discuss this next week anyway?
19:36:14 <afranke> So next topic?
19:36:14 <afranke> :)
19:36:47 <benzea> yeah, was thinking of going over mms plan quickly
19:38:01 <benzea> mms: ah, that price was without the drinks, right?
19:38:08 * benzea is just guessing that
19:38:21 <mms> yes, only including coffee, tea, milk and orange juice
19:38:31 <benzea> oh, wait; you are already including coffee?
19:38:38 <mms> yes
19:38:40 * benzea wonders how you make ends meet
19:39:11 <muelli> (instant-coffee that is)
19:39:17 <mms> yes indeed
19:39:23 * benzea has already calculated with coffee from AKK
19:39:25 <benzea> for around 200€
19:39:28 <mms> awww
19:39:49 <benzea> which 2 coffees per day per person on average
19:40:09 <mms> ok
19:40:10 <benzea> (it is a bit under 14¢ per mug)
19:40:57 <benzea> logistically we can get stuff from the AKK, and need to run the mugs through the dish washer once a day or so
19:41:29 <benzea> (we can even buy the coffee powder and milk through them)
19:41:50 <muelli> will we have the dishwasher?  In the AKK premises?
19:42:08 <benzea> muelli: yup, the AKK kitchen is blocked for us over the core days
19:42:33 <benzea> obvisouly it'll need some coordination, but shouldn't be an issue
19:42:36 <muelli> cool
19:42:45 <muelli> that's awesome indeed.
19:42:57 <benzea> sorry, thought you were aware of that
19:43:47 <muelli> (maybe I was... -.-)
19:43:51 <benzea> mms: so, my calculation so far had assume 200€ for coffee plus 540 for pasteries
19:43:58 <mms> ok
19:44:21 <muelli> I'm not aware of how exactly the coffee situation will work, but I guess it'll pan out nicely.
19:44:32 <benzea> which seems to work with your suggestion, even after you added a lot for thursday (I don't think we will have 60 people there, more like 30 maximum)
19:44:46 <mms> ok
19:45:01 <benzea> muelli: my plan is to do it similar to 2014, with a coffee machine and stuff available
19:45:14 <mms> but then the remaining question is rather: should we go for "belegt Brötchen" or buffet style
19:45:21 <afranke> Make sure someone sets it up.
19:45:21 <mms> for Thursday that is
19:45:28 <afranke> It was an issue in SXB.
19:45:40 <benzea> afranke: haha
19:45:43 <mms> I am happily volunteering for that
19:45:55 <muelli> yeah, we need a good volunteer schedule :-|
19:46:00 <mms> especially if it is possible to get 3 people to help me
19:46:04 * muelli was already thinking Engelsystem, but it's probably too big.
19:46:20 <benzea> muelli: I don't think we really need a complicated system
19:46:25 <benzea> it is more about knowing what needs to be done
19:46:29 <mms> I have a pretty good plan about what needs to be done for the breaks and have already checklists from previous events that I would use
19:46:30 <benzea> and enough people knowing this (i.e. not only me)
19:46:34 <benzea> or mms
19:47:09 <benzea> muelli: logistically the ugliest part will be thursday afternoon/evening; as we'll have the welcome event and setup at the same time
19:47:44 <benzea> mms: nice
19:47:57 <benzea> mms: one question though, how much refrigator space do you need? :)
19:48:21 <benzea> doesn't need to be now, but it is relevant
19:48:46 <mms> it depends on what is available :-) I mean either we stock more or we buy more often.
19:48:49 <benzea> and it also depends on when we get stuff
19:49:15 <mms> my suggestion would have been to check the kitchen on Monday the 8th and then adjust the planning and checklist accordingly
19:49:33 <benzea> alright
19:49:34 <muelli> hm. I'd expect to get the food stuff rather late, e.g. on Tuesday or Wednesday even, to have more confidence in the amounts needed.
19:49:39 <benzea> I can also check earlier what exactly is available
19:50:08 <benzea> muelli: yes, I do expect that this will happen, but we should have a relatively good idea of what we need to get before that
19:50:09 <muelli> that'd be helpful. Photos, too.
19:50:33 <benzea> including a shopping list with all the small stuff like garbage bags
19:50:38 <muelli> or a video while roaming around the space.
19:50:47 <benzea> hah
19:50:50 <muelli> ah, yeah, that'll painfully add up :-/
19:51:02 <benzea> yep, but important to have
19:51:02 <muelli> but fortunately, Scheck-in is not too far.
19:51:14 <muelli> we better have bikes to be able to quickly send someone.
19:51:14 <mms> I add them to the shopping list
19:51:33 <benzea> mms: I have already started an etherpad, and have some more notes to merge into that
19:51:38 <mms> ok
19:51:58 <benzea> #url https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/guadec-2016-shopping
19:52:08 <mms> I will for Monday do the same thing than what we have now for the coffee break for the picnic and the bbq
19:52:28 <benzea> right, neat
19:53:02 <benzea> with regard to picnic, moggi suggested more of a self service option (i.e. basically just provide buns and stuff to put on instead of actually preparing sandwitches)
19:53:22 <mms> i like the idea :-)
19:53:35 <muelli> that'd match the buffet style idea for the catering.
19:53:59 <benzea> well, we can do either; main advantage is that we might save some volunteer work in the afternoon
19:54:06 <dperpeet> self service can degenerate quickly into a mess
19:54:22 <dperpeet> and bottlenecks regarding time
19:54:25 * benzea sees an advantage in both options
19:54:32 <muelli> indeed. We'd then need at least one person to watch over it and keep it looking nice.
19:54:34 <dperpeet> yeah, just saying
19:54:47 <dperpeet> it's not "no effort"
19:54:57 <dperpeet> and you usually have more waste, also
19:55:05 <muelli> it works surprisingly well at most KIFs and also at the mrmcds. But they also throw three people at it.
19:55:12 <benzea> to be honest, the perfect option would be a non-gnome person just preparing stuff for us ;-)
19:55:23 <mms> I said that I need 3 people to help me :-)
19:55:34 <benzea> right
19:56:15 <dperpeet> self serving can be good if e.g. the buns are already cut open
19:56:17 <benzea> and I am sure we could volunteer a couple, one just needs to make sure they wash/desinfect their hands and stuff like that
19:56:28 <muelli> I think it's good, but a bit unconventional for GUADEC people. But that shoulnd't stop us from doing it.
19:56:30 <dperpeet> and the stuff is presented in a way that's easily consumed
19:57:04 <benzea> dperpeet: ah, basically try to find a middle ground by thinking it through a bit but saving on preparation time?
19:57:10 <mms> benzea: I am haccp certified :-)
19:57:19 <benzea> mms: perfect :)
19:57:25 <dperpeet> indeed, perfect
19:57:28 <benzea> you might have said that, but wasn't aware
19:57:39 <benzea> mms: though I don't think we are even legally obliged to do that, but still good
19:58:04 <afranke> muelli, FWIW I was worried about the way I handled the picnic in SXB but got positive feedback about it.
19:58:06 <dperpeet> and we couldn't meet the requirements if we prepare the stuff right there anyway
19:58:24 <muelli> afranke: you mean with the donation box going around?
19:58:32 * benzea wasn't there in SXB
19:58:51 <benzea> dperpeet: no, preparation should happen at the AKK kitchen
19:59:08 <afranke> muelli, I meant with the "here's food, help yourself" approach.
19:59:16 <afranke> benzea, WAT
19:59:29 <muelli> afranke: Ah, I see :)   yeah, I guess it's a bit... more wild...
19:59:33 <benzea> afranke: was it on sunday?
19:59:45 <afranke> benzea, I guess it was.
19:59:45 <muelli> I see two questions now:  1) do we do the buffet-style for the picnic     2)  do we do that for the sponsored coffee break on for the workshops Thursday.  Am I seeing this correclty?
19:59:53 <benzea> afranke: I was at THE open air festival in karlsruhe that evening, "Das Fest"
20:00:02 <afranke> benzea, I am disappoint.
20:00:49 <benzea> muelli: I was mostly concerend with the picnic right now
20:01:24 <muelli> I take that as a yes.
20:01:47 <mms> yes, but we should also take a decision about the coffee break for thursday, so that I can update the spreadsheet and maybe order the belegte brötchen, if we are not going for a buffet-style approache
20:01:51 <benzea> for 2. I am not sure there is much to discuss; both options shouldn't require a lot of work at that scale
20:02:53 <benzea> but it might make sense to order stuff on thursday instead; would save us quite a bit of work on wednesday to handle other stuff
20:02:59 <mms> ok
20:03:02 <mms> then we do that
20:03:21 <mms> order belegte brötchen on thursday
20:03:53 <benzea> it is an extra expense, but seems to simplify things somewhat
20:04:28 <benzea> #agreed we are probably going to order buns as a breakfast for workshop attendees
20:04:40 <benzea> hah, that will look weird in the minutes :)
20:05:05 <mms> totally :-) but I don't know any good translation for belegte Brötchen
20:05:05 <benzea> #info there has been a lot of discussion about food/drink logistics
20:05:25 <benzea> nah, also because it there is not much else in the summary of what we discussed :)
20:05:34 <benzea> an there actually was quite a discussion
20:05:53 <benzea> right
20:06:01 <benzea> I think we are done with this for now
20:06:23 <benzea> will probably need to re-iterate it again a few times (likely not in the IRC meeting, I suppose) :)
20:06:38 <benzea> #action benzea to check available stuff in the AKK kitchen
20:07:02 <benzea> #topic Sponsors
20:07:15 <benzea> muelli: could you give me some update on what the status with afinisysgroup is?
20:07:27 <muelli> benzea: no news.
20:07:51 <benzea> as I said, I was rather lost with them being put on the sponsors page and news section
20:07:57 * muelli is wondering whether the mail my evolution sends gets blocked :-/
20:07:57 <muelli> I caught it sending malformed mail.
20:08:02 <benzea> but not having a request from you to even create an invoice
20:08:11 <muelli> I guess I end up calling her.
20:08:45 <benzea> and I don't understand why they are listed under "Bronze"
20:09:54 <muelli> I put quickly onto the page when I prepared the news item. Feel free to shuffle it around.
20:10:11 <benzea> right, so they just got sorted into the wrong category
20:10:42 <benzea> btw. google has pretty much confirmed
20:11:08 <muelli> cool.
20:11:18 <benzea> redhat apparently got lost on our side because we didn't just invoice them or so
20:11:20 <mms> it would be time that someone updates the budget with the amounts available so that we get a clear picture where we are at
20:11:41 <muelli> We might get swag from Univativ. But I'll wait for their reaction to the brochure...
20:11:45 <benzea> mms: I have updated the spreadsheet
20:12:17 <benzea> basically things look good, but it is hard to tell how much we might need/want to shuffle around expenses
20:13:21 <benzea> mms: basically, with calculation 1k for the picknic it is a 4.5k$ profit for the foundation it seems
20:13:49 <benzea> now, I am not sure what else might still be missing that is not covered through some item on the list
20:14:04 <benzea> so that is not really a large amount to work with
20:14:06 <mms> ok, then we can start thinking about the ice-cream van ;-)
20:14:18 <muelli> you mean more wiggle room for us to come up with niceties \o/
20:14:24 <benzea> (and obviously we preferably have a profit in the end)
20:14:41 <benzea> muelli: nope, we are actually not allowed to simply increase the budget
20:15:04 <benzea> I need to check, the 1k€ for the picnic might actually require some approval from the board
20:15:24 <muelli> quatsch.
20:15:41 <benzea> whatever, you won't just decide spendings :-P
20:16:00 <benzea> #topic Misc
20:16:15 <benzea> stefw: thanks for that Kids page
20:16:41 <benzea> zana: you might be interested
20:16:44 <benzea> #url https://wiki.gnome.org/GUADEC/2016/Kids
20:17:21 <benzea> ok, I think we have the most urgent stuff covered
20:17:37 <benzea> venue contract is still pending (gah) and I haven't heard back; need to ping them again :/
20:17:59 * benzea guesses it simply takes some time because they need to do the planning for cleaning and such stuff
20:18:35 <benzea> mms: should we have a separate call later this week?
20:18:36 * zana looks
20:19:14 <mms> we should at one stage
20:19:32 <benzea> yeah, but we have said that for a couple of weeks now; so was wondering whether we should just go ahead now :)
20:19:42 <benzea> even if it might be really quick
20:20:00 <mms> then let's start that. Maybe on Friday?
20:20:17 <benzea> mms: works for me, when is best for you? late evening?
20:20:25 <mms> yes
20:20:39 <mms> maybe around 21h30?
20:20:39 <benzea> ok, cool
20:20:51 <benzea> quite late :) but that is fine
20:21:15 <benzea> I guess we can send out a quick summary for everyone else
20:21:23 <benzea> probably mostly discussing logistics with regard to the food
20:21:25 <mms> sounds good
20:21:36 <benzea> ok
20:21:40 <benzea> anything else from someone?
20:21:52 <benzea> btw.
20:21:53 <benzea> Total registrations: 60
20:22:09 <benzea> Average: 39.15€ (paypal + onsite)
20:22:44 <benzea> 15 workshop registrations right now; 5x flatpak, 5x GNOME newcomer, 3x GStreamer and 2x sils newcomer workshops
20:23:04 <benzea> right, that is it from my side
20:23:06 <benzea> 3
20:23:14 <benzea> 2
20:23:15 <mms> thanks :-)
20:23:18 <benzea> 1
20:23:23 <afranke> How much in fees for workshops?
20:23:23 <benzea> #endmeeting