19:15:30 <benzea> #startmeeting
19:15:30 <GNOMie> Meeting started Wed Apr 20 19:15:30 2016 UTC.  The chair is benzea. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:15:30 <GNOMie> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:16:13 <benzea> #topic Budget
19:16:58 <benzea> http://benjamin.sipsolutions.net/GUADEC%202016%20Budget.ods
19:17:01 <benzea> there
19:17:19 <benzea> has anyone looked over it, think I missed something important, orther comments?
19:17:26 <benzea> the changes here are, in no particular order:
19:17:41 <benzea> * I added 1.5k for "cool stuff" just ignore that …
19:18:03 <benzea> * increased some estimates (BBQ, merchandise, hotel for keynotes)
19:19:02 <moggi> is the registration income correct?
19:19:07 <benzea> it basically breaks even with the assumed sponsors, even if we increase the travel sponsorship budget by 2.88k
19:19:36 <benzea> moggi: it is estimated with 175 attendees and 30€ on average (which would be 5.2k or so)
19:19:56 <benzea> moggi: scaling last year up by a few extra attendees
19:21:11 <benzea> main thing I am wondering whether I may have missed something that cannot be covered by "misc" being 200€
19:22:04 <moggi> do we need anything for monday to wednesday at the computer science department?
19:22:18 <benzea> I don't think so, should probably check back with them
19:22:28 <dperpeet> water calc seems low
19:22:29 <moggi> university library for the board meeting
19:22:39 <dperpeet> will attendees get their own drinks from vending machines?
19:22:41 <benzea> moggi: that is free
19:23:01 <moggi> benzea: ah ok
19:23:03 <afranke> benzea, increase by 2.88k ← how much would that make?
19:23:05 <benzea> dperpeet: vending machines is a bit sad, there are some, but those are stuwe so cannot be used with cash
19:23:14 <dperpeet> true
19:23:19 <benzea> afranke: 32.88k
19:23:25 * afranke nods.
19:23:52 <dperpeet> the total in the spreadsheet already includes the 2.88k increase, right?
19:23:55 <moggi> benzea: and not sure about merchandise cost 800� but expected income of 1600�
19:23:57 <dperpeet> it's in the list
19:24:02 <benzea> dperpeet: yes
19:24:23 <moggi> benzea: that seems optimistic
19:24:26 <benzea> dperpeet: the only weird thing is that the 2.88 is effectively added to the 30k€ for budget travel sponsorship
19:24:51 <benzea> moggi: we had 788€ or something last year for t-shirts (including the volunteer ones, I think)
19:25:10 <dperpeet> anyway, when deciding the hotel I want to point out that public transportation is still limited due to construction work
19:25:18 <dperpeet> for some hotels in particular
19:25:25 <benzea> at leonardo, yep
19:25:27 <dperpeet> sorry, wrong agenda point
19:25:57 <benzea> kittykat seems to be actually considering achat even without increasing the travel sponsorship budget overall
19:26:17 <benzea> she will talk to emily tomorrow about it (I hope)
19:27:30 <dperpeet> I don't see any big gaps in the budget, things that were missed
19:27:42 <dperpeet> talking about little things seems moot if stuff like keynote speaker travel is unsure
19:28:19 <benzea> yup
19:28:23 <benzea> ok, cool
19:28:28 <moggi> yeap, and we have the cool stuff in there and misc that will help catch stuff we forgot
19:28:41 <benzea> ah, that was just experimenting :)
19:28:48 * benzea doesn't think we'll get that
19:29:08 <benzea> btw. printing "turnbeutel" for everyone would be about 800€ with SSV
19:29:11 <benzea> if anyone is curious
19:29:40 <benzea> dperpeet: do you want to say anything about accomondation?
19:31:01 <benzea> if not, then I would move on to sponsors now
19:31:10 <dperpeet> hm
19:31:14 <benzea> (just swaping reg to the back)
19:31:20 <dperpeet> so I renewed the offer for Achat on Monday
19:31:30 <dperpeet> for 20 double/twin rooms and 2 single rooms
19:31:36 <dperpeet> without breakfast
19:31:45 <dperpeet> we have until the 25th to accept that
19:32:03 <benzea> yup
19:32:07 <dperpeet> and they can reserve another 10 rooms for people to book via keyword (until four weeks before the conference)
19:32:29 <dperpeet> I think the location is pretty awesome for the conference and to get to the city / the train station
19:32:40 <dperpeet> so if we have the budget, that would be my choice
19:32:51 <benzea> yeah, it is this tradeoff between really awesome location and budget
19:33:16 <dperpeet> for leonardo I want to note (like I said above) that you basically have to walk
19:33:31 <dperpeet> since the nearby tram stop is out of operation
19:33:32 <benzea> yeah, you need to walk 700m then 3tram stops, than 300m
19:33:37 <benzea> b&b is almost better to that …
19:33:41 <dperpeet> indeed
19:33:53 <benzea> but the worst locatoin with regard to city and such
19:34:20 <dperpeet> and I think we should decide soon
19:34:29 <dperpeet> i.e. within the next 1-2 weeks, max
19:34:41 * benzea wants to give the go on friday for one of them
19:34:43 <dperpeet> some times were already starting to fill up
19:34:55 <dperpeet> we don't want other attendees to have trouble booking
19:35:01 <dperpeet> ok, that's it on my end
19:35:08 <benzea> ok, cool
19:35:10 <mms> To be honest, I think the achat is really a good choice - but who is going to take the decision?
19:35:38 <benzea> well, kittykat will talk to emily
19:35:46 <benzea> to me it looks like it boils down to taking achat
19:36:01 <dperpeet> for the sake of transparency I want to mention that I have an acquaintance who works at the achat
19:36:14 <dperpeet> but they don't know I looked at it for the conference
19:36:32 <benzea> even if that might decrease a possible profit from guadec
19:36:40 <benzea> dperpeet: you mentioned it already :)
19:36:55 <benzea> ok
19:36:57 <benzea> #topic Sponsors
19:37:11 <benzea> mms: I just head that oliverp is supposed to look into the mozilla stuff?
19:37:28 <benzea> oh, hey muelli
19:37:36 <mms> yes, Tobi and Oliver have be talking last week I think
19:37:52 <muelli> ho
19:38:04 * muelli nods
19:38:04 * benzea was a bit surprised when oliverp told him half an hour ago in private
19:38:22 <benzea> and wanted to do a call later
19:39:51 <benzea> muelli: anyways, I can do the call, can you make sure that it gets done within a reasonable timeframe?
19:40:27 <muelli> sure
19:40:33 <benzea> cool
19:40:36 <benzea> any other news?
19:40:38 <benzea> suse?
19:40:39 <benzea> senacor?
19:40:48 <benzea> hm, not sure what else there may be
19:41:28 <mms> Not yet for senacor
19:43:12 <moggi> benzea: any news from the university?
19:43:15 <benzea> hm, to be honest I am not quite sure what open tasks there are
19:43:34 <benzea> moggi: be patient :)
19:43:54 <benzea> are there any new action items?
19:44:00 <mms> I had to call ZKM
19:44:01 <benzea> other than following up on these two sponsors?
19:44:06 <benzea> ah, sponsors :)
19:44:08 <muelli> easy: cold contat all the companies in the list.
19:44:12 <oliverp> have a point
19:44:17 <muelli> dollow up with those hwho have been contcted.
19:44:22 <muelli> i.e. call them
19:44:23 <benzea> yeah
19:44:36 <benzea> #action mms to follow up with senacor
19:44:42 <benzea> #action muelli to follow up with suse
19:44:48 <oliverp> I'm preparing a request to Mozilla
19:44:51 <mms> I am still working on cold email the one that remain in the list. And then we have to cold call to follow up
19:45:02 <benzea> #action everyone to cold calling/mailing other potential sponsors
19:45:32 <benzea> mms: cool, as long as there is some progress :)
19:45:48 <benzea> oliverp: already mentioned it (forgot to info it though)
19:45:56 <oliverp> ok
19:46:00 <oliverp> I see
19:46:04 <benzea> #info oliverp is going to work on the mozilla request
19:46:13 <benzea> er
19:46:14 <benzea> #undo
19:46:14 <GNOMie> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2193b50>
19:46:18 <benzea> #action oliverp is going to work on the mozilla request
19:46:31 <benzea> #info probably will have a call about it later with benzea
19:46:37 <benzea> #undo
19:46:37 <GNOMie> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x21b6f10>
19:46:50 <benzea> #info oliverp will probably have a call about the mozilla request later with benzea
19:46:54 <benzea> there, that is more readable
19:47:06 <oliverp> cool
19:47:12 * benzea assumes that wraps sponsors up for today already?
19:47:34 <benzea> #topic Registration
19:47:51 <benzea> there are a few points here:
19:47:58 <benzea> * what fields do we need
19:48:09 <benzea> * I assume we stay at 40€ suggested donation?
19:48:22 <benzea> * some backend work for workshops
19:48:45 <benzea> * putting up a notice on a website when/that you can expect registration to open soon
19:49:03 <afranke> benzea, how are you handling "pro" attendees?
19:49:16 <benzea> for workshops?
19:49:31 <afranke> No, entre fee/donations.
19:50:02 * benzea wonders what it was last year
19:50:10 <benzea> wasn't it the 40€ suggested amount too?
19:50:23 <benzea> and minimum of 20€ for receipt?
19:50:26 <afranke> I don't know about last year. andreasn ?
19:50:45 <afranke> I think it's good to suggest a higher donation.
19:51:00 <andreasn> I think it was 40
19:51:05 <andreasn> let me see if I can find it
19:51:12 <afranke> Pro budget usually is higher and drives the average up.
19:51:29 <benzea> afranke: hm, if you want to trick people into paying a bit more
19:51:48 <benzea> then maybe have a choice of Pro/Foundation/Student, with different minimum values?
19:51:57 <benzea> and this is printed on the badge ;-)
19:52:04 <benzea> Hobbiest
19:52:43 * benzea thinks there were guadecs with "Professional" (i.e. "normal") and "Student/Hobbiest" registration in the past
19:52:59 <dperpeet> hobbyist sounds a bit weird
19:53:45 <afranke> Yes, but those were not donation based.
19:53:51 <benzea> yep
19:54:25 <benzea> really, it is more like a non-binding entrance fee
19:55:54 <afranke> My point was pros have money, let's (find a way to) take it.
19:55:54 <andreasn> verified it was 40 Euro last year
19:55:55 <afranke> :)
19:56:10 <benzea> (well, it is rather weird, with regard to taxes and where the money comes in, but that is no the point here)
19:56:32 <benzea> afranke: what did you do in Strasbourg?
19:57:09 <dperpeet> the point is also that considering what the trip already costs a company (employee time, hotel), a little conference fee really doesn't matter that much anymore
19:57:24 <afranke> We had three suggested levels and receipts were only above 100€.
19:58:10 <benzea> afranke: do you remember the levels?
19:58:31 <afranke> Levels were "I'm broke" at 10ish, "hobbyist" at 20ish and "pro" at above 100, maybe 150?
19:58:35 <afranke> (Names not accurate)
19:59:03 <afranke> There definitely was a 10, then I'm not sure it was 20 or 40.
19:59:46 <benzea> hm, I don't really have a strong opinion
20:00:07 <benzea> basically the way to get people to pay more is to only give out a receipt above a certain threshold
20:00:23 <benzea> well, a more fancy receipt
20:00:42 <muelli> or add value.
20:00:42 <muelli> e.g. a lounge or smth with refreshments.
20:01:15 <afranke> "Party at benzea's"
20:01:26 <moggi> :P
20:01:29 <benzea> that is a question, if you make it a lot more expensive, do people expect added value?
20:01:38 * benzea sends everyone over to moggi
20:01:57 <benzea> and what could we offer?
20:02:31 <muelli> it depends. Some might be happy to just click an expensive option to get reimbursed later.
20:02:39 <muelli> some wont click more expensive if theres not more value.
20:02:52 <benzea> hm, well, I guess we could give them a tshirt with their badge for example
20:03:08 <moggi> the tshirt idea sounds good
20:03:08 <benzea> muelli: yeah
20:03:32 <moggi> you can make it for anyone above some number (e.g. 50)
20:03:40 <benzea> moggi: yup
20:04:20 <benzea> something like the nice receipt from 25€ and t-shirt from 75€ and upwards
20:04:46 <afranke> One thing is sure: many of those who get reimbursed don't know what to pay if you don't tell them.
20:04:52 <muelli> I think we should find some way to strongly suggest "professional" particiapants to paymore than e.g. studens dropping by.
20:05:02 <muelli> right
20:05:12 <benzea> muelli: it makes sense
20:05:18 <muelli> (excuse my weird writing, btw. Every DNS  packet is sacrd...)
20:05:35 <benzea> hehe
20:05:51 <dperpeet> pro should be 100 at least
20:05:55 <benzea> can we come up with some numbers?
20:06:15 <dperpeet> what's the expected number of professional attendees?
20:06:17 <benzea> pro, suggest 150€
20:06:45 <benzea> dperpeet: https://wiki.gnome.org/GUADEC/HowTo/EstimateAttendees is the only thing we have
20:07:02 <muelli> So what about 1 EUR for the poor, 30 EUR for the casual 50 EUR for the Pros and 500 for the business executives...?
20:07:07 * muelli just making up numbers...
20:07:11 <benzea> "3" in 2014 doesn't seem very promising :)
20:07:17 <muelli> s/50/150/
20:07:32 <benzea> muelli: even poor can be 15 or so, I think
20:08:23 <muelli> actually, ithe hard lower bound should be 0 as it's a donation based thing. At least, that's what we had in mind last.
20:08:48 <benzea> maybe: 15 "Student", 40 "Casual", 100 "Professional"?
20:08:52 <benzea> yes, it is a suggested amount
20:08:57 <muelli> you only get to level up by payn gmore... -.-
20:09:06 <muelli> jesus christ. turbulences heavy ones...
20:09:06 <benzea> i.e. what you get pre-filled based on a dropdown above or so
20:09:06 <moggi> I think that 150 might be a lot, maybe talk to stef as he mentioned some complaints about systemd prices last year and they offer catering for professionals
20:09:19 <dperpeet> benzea, I was about to write those numbers
20:09:25 <dperpeet> moggi, let me check those prices
20:09:28 <afranke> muelli, are you on a plane?
20:09:39 <benzea> to india!
20:09:45 * benzea assues
20:09:46 <benzea> assumes
20:10:11 * afranke assumes benzea's spelling issue has nothing to do with alcohol.
20:10:22 <benzea> afranke: maybe past consumption?
20:10:31 <dperpeet> yeah, systemd was very expensive
20:10:40 <dperpeet> almost 500 for non speaker pros
20:10:48 <benzea> wow
20:11:03 <moggi> yeap, and I think at some point people start to expect something in return
20:11:20 <moggi> I would just suggest that we chat with someone who has some experience from a company side
20:11:43 <dperpeet> well, at that point you start considering how many people to send the following years
20:11:49 <dperpeet> so the repercussions aren't that easy
20:12:01 * benzea was just wondering whether we could decide about some basics today to put up some info on the website
20:12:02 <dperpeet> but like I said, employee time, travel, hotel...
20:12:32 <benzea> well, it is till just a pre-filled value we are talking about right now
20:12:41 <muelli> also, we probably allow people to pay less. So if anyone is not comfortable paying so much (e.g. the 500 EUR ticket) then they don't have to...
20:13:08 <dperpeet> how about this: 15 for students, 40 for casual, 150 for pros, but start the pro threshold at 100
20:13:11 <muelli> (they don't get into the executive lunge then, though ;_) )
20:13:15 <dperpeet> so suggest 150, but make it start at 100
20:13:23 <dperpeet> the "benefit"
20:13:35 <moggi> sounds like a good compromise
20:13:45 <benzea> which is probably just the t-shirt for free (instead of 15€ by the person)
20:13:49 <dperpeet> 100€ is an amount that a company won't care about
20:14:14 <muelli> sounds good.
20:14:18 * benzea wonders if 15€ for students might actually lower our income
20:14:26 <benzea> but seems fine to me
20:14:51 <dperpeet> why would it?
20:15:05 <benzea> #agreed we are going to suggest 15€ for Students, 40€ for Casual attendees, 150€ for professionals
20:15:27 <benzea> #agreed from 100€ onwards there should be some benefit (probably conference t-shirt included)
20:15:56 <benzea> dunno, it seems like we have quite a number of students, so if they give less on average
20:16:13 <benzea> but, probably even those might spend the suggested 40€
20:16:38 <benzea> ok, is that correct?
20:16:41 <dperpeet> then suggest 10€ per day attendance?
20:16:45 <dperpeet> and start with 30
20:16:57 <dperpeet> so everyone can slide the scale a bit lower :)
20:17:01 <dperpeet> and feel happy
20:17:38 <benzea> well, I am fine with suggesting 15€
20:17:39 <dperpeet> or 25
20:18:21 <mms> Let's go with the 15 / 40 / 150
20:18:26 <benzea> ok
20:18:31 <dperpeet> ok
20:18:44 <benzea> maybe we can put some more thought into the design of the checkout page
20:18:49 <muelli> just to make it cleanr: For default values which are given in the interface..?
20:18:50 <mms> but talking about students: can we add to the agenda for one of the next meetings: inform universities etc. about GUADEC?
20:19:05 <benzea> mms: sure, marketing
20:19:30 <benzea> muelli: yeah, those are the main suggested values
20:20:36 <benzea> ok, I think we should be able to at least put up some information on the website about registration with this decision
20:21:42 <benzea> is anyone up to helping out with that (does't need to be much, just enough so that people feel informed enough to not mail us for now)
20:22:14 <dperpeet> I can start on the hotel page with andreasn
20:22:26 <benzea> ah, that would also be great
20:22:49 <benzea> ok, I guess I'll see about the workshop registration
20:23:20 <benzea> or, ask patrick about it (but my guess is that I'll add very basic support to put in a maximum number of registrations) and handle the payment separately
20:24:32 <benzea> or, maybe somehow in the "theme" for the checkout page
20:24:41 <benzea> hm, did I forget anything for now?
20:25:11 * benzea guesses no
20:25:13 <benzea> #topic Misc
20:25:34 <benzea> #info benzea has called the KIT (aserv) the permit is being processed tomorrow
20:25:38 <benzea> moggi: there :)
20:25:57 <benzea> lets hope that goes through without much of an issue
20:25:59 <moggi> benzea: thanks :)
20:26:31 <benzea> #action benzea will put up the first workshop on the website and announce it via twitter
20:26:56 <benzea> #action dperpeet and andreasn will add hotel information to the website
20:27:15 <benzea> ah, hm
20:27:40 <benzea> #action benzea will add a note about registration opening "the next couple of weeks"
20:28:23 <benzea> and the old stuff obviously (won't repeat that now, but will try to send it in the minutes)
20:28:39 <benzea> if nobody has anything else, I'll leave it here
20:28:43 <benzea> we are past 1h already …
20:28:47 <mms> sounds good
20:29:05 <benzea> #endmeeting