19:05:43 <aday> #startmeeting
19:05:43 <Services> Meeting started Wed Apr 16 19:05:43 2014 UTC.  The chair is aday. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:05:43 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:05:55 <oliverp_> I guess we can conclude that the feedback have been positive?
19:06:24 <aday> #topic 3.12 Release Feedback
19:06:46 <oliverp_> I think most feedback have been very positive
19:07:16 <aday> yeah, it went well
19:07:35 <hashem> The video was very well-received
19:07:41 <oliverp_> the release itself went pretty smoothly  right, with live images available
19:07:46 <alxgrtnstrngl> Wasn't there an article somewhere http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/27/gnome_3_12_review/
19:07:59 <aday> 3.12 was definitely the best received so far. it's worth reflecting on why
19:08:11 <aday> having the video was one factor
19:09:00 <aday> i think that the new gedit and videos apps played a major role
19:09:09 <oliverp_> I think it was a very polished release, we had planned the release a good time ahead, with what message we sent out
19:09:09 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, I have to say that your blogging really helped too.  People were guided through the design aspects of building 3.12 up until day of release.
19:09:19 <aday> apps are the things people care about
19:09:24 <jjmarin> I think that fact that there isn't too many distros  including GNOME 3.12 reduces the attention
19:09:25 <aday> alxgrtnstrngl, i didn't really blog that much
19:09:50 <aday> jjmarin, hughsie's fedora copr helped there though, i think
19:09:55 <aday> quite a lot of people are using that
19:09:58 <hashem> mclasen did a bunch of blogging with nice screenshots
19:10:04 <oliverp_> aday: agree
19:10:06 <aday> hashem, yeah he was a blogging machine
19:10:15 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, true I meant the the design group as a whole...
19:10:23 <jjmarin> yes, copr has been a good thing
19:10:23 <alxgrtnstrngl> you, plural
19:10:27 <aday> alxgrtnstrngl, none of the other designers posted :)
19:10:46 <oliverp_> we spent a good time of planning the release was well
19:10:56 <alxgrtnstrngl> But anyways it was a step in the right direction.
19:10:57 <aday> there were plenty of posts from developers, if that's what you mean. i gave them a push and it seemed to work
19:11:18 <oliverp_> aday: cool, agree
19:11:25 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, that's what I meant the designer/developer group, people working on the release.
19:12:18 <oliverp_> We have had some great feedback here we can note, are we ready to move to the next topic?
19:12:30 <aday> #agreed Pre-release blog posts helped to promote 3.12 - something to push again.
19:12:48 <aday> #agreed The release video was a big boost - also something to repeat.
19:12:51 <oliverp_> aday:+1
19:13:02 <hashem> perhaps we can also demonstrate how well gedit and totem were received to encourage more app developers to adopt GNOME 3 HIG patterns
19:13:18 <aday> hashem, that's a good idea
19:13:56 <aday> #idea Publicise the positive reaction to gedit and totem. Use this to encourage more app developers to adopt GNOME 3 design patterns.
19:14:25 <hashem> aday especially since Cinnamon 2.2 explicitly discouraged app developers from using CSD & HeaderBars
19:14:35 <hashem> segfault.linuxmint.com/2014/04/cinnamon-2-2/ (not loading for me)
19:14:42 <hashem> cache: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:x8ICoirKHNEJ:segfault.linuxmint.com/2014/04/cinnamon-2-2/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=iceweasel-a
19:15:34 <oliverp_> any more points about this or are we ready to move on?
19:15:44 <aday> is there anything we should have done for the release and didn't?
19:15:48 <aday> any room for improvement?
19:16:03 <aday> personally i think we dropped the ball a bit post-release
19:16:11 <aday> could have done more to capitalise
19:16:15 <hashem> Have 3.12 installable in real distros out of the gate...
19:16:21 <oliverp_> <aday: maybe start with writing the Press release earlier?
19:16:30 <aday> hashem, not sure how much we can do there...
19:16:36 <jjmarin> I think  a classic extensions similar to cinnamon could help to attrackt some people
19:16:37 <oliverp_> and ask for quotes
19:16:41 <hashem> aday, dropped the ball in what way?
19:16:46 <alxgrtnstrngl> hashem, that's the real issue the release didn't hit the majority of users yet.
19:16:53 <aday> #idea Start writing the press release earlier.
19:17:16 <aday> hashem, particularly on social media we went a bit quiet after the release
19:17:30 <oliverp_> aday: agree
19:17:34 <hashem> aday, true. There's a whole bunch of blogging before the release, but not after...
19:17:37 <aday> ideally you would keep talking about it for a longer afterwards
19:17:42 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, hashem, perhaps a tool for non-technical users to upgrade to 3.12 or new stable releases would be great...
19:18:10 <aday> #idea In future releases we should give more thought to post-release publicity - there should be a more sustained social media campaign.
19:18:39 <hashem> I was thinking more of a launch partner program with a distro (or two) for the next release...
19:18:39 <jjmarin> the  release notes are difficult to do in advance, because many features are including in the last minute, but the press release can be worked in advance
19:19:09 <aday> jjmarin, yeah. the main thing is to start approaching people for quotes earlier
19:19:18 <jjmarin> yes
19:19:29 <oliverp_> now I think we have covert the main points about this topic, I suggest we move on
19:19:39 <aday> hashem, alxgrtnstrngl, that's fine in theory; harder in practice
19:19:53 <aday> you're basically talking about shifting the release schedule of those distros
19:20:34 <aday> oliverp_, yeah i agree
19:20:35 <jjmarin> the next release will be the Wayland thing
19:20:40 <hashem> aday, that's true. Let's move on for now though
19:20:40 <aday> ok to move on? what's the next topic?
19:20:55 <oliverp_> Engagement team Hackfest in connection to Boston Summit 2014
19:21:14 <aday> #topic Engagement Hackfest at Boston Summit 2014
19:21:27 <oliverp_> Boston Summit is something need to start thinking about as well
19:21:29 <aday> oliverp_, i like the idea
19:21:38 <oliverp_> aday: cool
19:21:58 <aday> i think we should aim to have 1 hackfest a year, and east coast usa works well for the team
19:22:13 <oliverp_> thinks so to :)
19:22:19 <aday> (last year we met in new york, for example)
19:23:02 <aday> oliverp_, boston summit is still a way off though... i think the main thing is to make sure people have it in mind
19:23:14 <oliverp_> aday: yes agree
19:23:35 <oliverp_> buts its important that we not foreget about it ;)
19:23:52 <aday> hashem, are you still in boston?
19:23:59 <jjmarin> I don't know if I'll able to go, but I think east coast is better for Europeans :-)
19:24:13 <oliverp_> I keep this in mind and will nag about it, when the topic of Boston Summit 2014 comes up
19:24:51 <hashem> aday, Indeed I am.
19:24:54 <jjmarin> I think we should work on how to present Wayland as a step forward fot the Desktop and GNOME
19:25:21 <oliverp_> jjmarin: this not the current topic
19:25:24 <jjmarin> My main concern is to get regressions in the transition
19:25:52 <jjmarin> I'm talking about the topic for the meting in Boston
19:25:56 <jjmarin> meeting
19:26:04 <aday> #agree Boston Summit seems like a good location for the next Engagement Team Hackfest
19:26:10 <oliverp_> jjmarin: ok, right there is a thread about this
19:26:20 <oliverp_> where you can post suggestions
19:26:29 <aday> #agree Need to make sure that people are aware of the idea to have a hackfest then.
19:26:34 <jjmarin> ok, sorry :-)
19:26:46 <aday> jjmarin, we might have already ported to wayland by then :)
19:27:08 <jjmarin> I'm afraid of accessibility features
19:27:37 <oliverp_> great, I was thinking of only have the upcoming event topic for this meeting and save the other two for the next one
19:27:46 <jjmarin> but, yes, this is not the topic
19:28:01 <aday> ok, move on?
19:28:08 <oliverp_> I those will generate long discussions
19:28:21 <aday> #topic Friends of GNOME
19:28:22 <oliverp_> <aday: yes, "upcoming events"
19:28:42 <oliverp_> <aday: can't save that to the next meeting?
19:29:31 <aday> oliverp_, i'm not following you. you don't want to talk abut friends of gnome?
19:29:51 <oliverp_> no, I think we save that topic to the next meeting
19:30:34 <aday> oliverp_, why?
19:30:38 <oliverp_> as I think it will generate a long discussion, plus it would give people time to prepare
19:31:28 <oliverp_> have other people such as karen and andreasn with us
19:32:02 <aday> ok, well let's see
19:32:07 <aday> #topic Upcoming Events
19:32:49 <jjmarin> https://wiki.gnome.org/Hackfests/
19:33:12 <aday> next one is the dev x hackfest in 2 weeks
19:33:12 <oliverp_> the team with sri leading have done a fantastic job this year for far
19:33:30 <oliverp_> <aday: do you feel prepared?
19:33:37 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, jjmarin, is there going to be a sort of Ubuntu UDS style way of doing these online?
19:34:00 <oliverp_> alxgrtnstrngl: there is a thread about this
19:34:20 <alxgrtnstrngl> oliverp_, which mailing list?
19:34:32 <oliverp_> engagement team
19:34:33 <jjmarin> hmm, AFAIK no one has done before in previous hackfests
19:35:13 <jjmarin> hackfest are very informal events
19:35:27 <aday> i've been to hackfests where we've set up a hangout on air
19:35:28 <jjmarin> sometime with unconference format
19:35:37 <alxgrtnstrngl> Just seems like a good idea to increase participation opportunities.
19:35:41 <oliverp_> aday: do feel you have resources you need from the engagement team?
19:35:43 <aday> it's a bit limited though
19:36:19 <aday> oliverp_, i wasn't really expecting any to be honest
19:36:32 <aday> i'll do some publicity posts around the event
19:36:37 <aday> seems like enough
19:36:40 <oliverp_> <aday: you will handle the social media right?
19:37:12 <aday> oliverp_, i can do. always happy to get help of course :)
19:37:30 <hashem> alxgrtnstrngl, I like your idea about having some remote component to hackfests. Not everyone is able to travel, so the current format is unfortunately exclusionary.
19:37:46 <oliverp_> aday: same goes for the gnome.org news item right?
19:37:56 <aday> oliverp_, yeah
19:38:00 <alxgrtnstrngl> hashem, it's more than that, what about a regular virtual hackfest that occurs monthly and anyone can join?
19:38:16 <alxgrtnstrngl> hashem, "GNOME office hours" or whatever...
19:38:18 <oliverp_> <aday: cool
19:38:55 <oliverp_> aday: any more help you want from the engagement team?
19:39:19 <aday> #agree We should do some publicity work for the upcoming Developer Experience Hackfest (April 29 - May 1)
19:39:49 <oliverp_> aday: cool
19:40:11 <alxgrtnstrngl> hashem, also running labs and things, but we can discuss that further on the mailing list...
19:40:24 <oliverp_> GUADEC are coming closer as well
19:40:38 <oliverp_> or rahter the ASIA summit
19:40:50 <aday> ah yes
19:41:16 <oliverp_> I will join it, as will aday if I understand things correctly
19:41:24 <aday> #agree Should plan publicity for GNOME.Asia (MAY 24-25).
19:42:23 <oliverp_> any more events or are we done?
19:42:35 <aday> i wonder if we should track distro releases?
19:42:53 <oliverp_> aday: don't think so
19:42:56 <aday> it would be good to do announcements when gnome distros make the latest version available
19:43:10 <oliverp_> maybe on social media then
19:43:16 <oliverp_> but not more
19:43:35 <jjmarin> AFAIK, we haven't make a piece of news about the CFP of GNOME Asia
19:43:52 <jjmarin> sorry, we did it
19:43:59 <hashem> aday, I like the idea of encouraging distros to update soon by giving them exposure
19:44:28 <oliverp_> but not about GUADEC CFP
19:44:29 <aday> looks like ubuntu gnome will be having a release tomorrow? see http://ubuntugnome.org/
19:44:32 <alxgrtnstrngl> oliverp_, I can't find that thread on the mailing list which one was it?
19:44:43 <aday> oliverp_, ah yes, guadec cfp!
19:44:59 <aday> #agree We should publicise the GUADEC CfP.
19:45:21 <aday> #idea Advertise the Ubuntu GNOME release planned for 17 April?
19:45:35 <aday> jjmarin, the gnome.asia cfp has been and gone, hasn't it?
19:45:48 <oliverp_> aday: I suggest we use social media for that
19:45:56 <jjmarin> aday: yes
19:46:43 <hashem> aday, yes
19:47:00 <aday> the problem is that ubuntu gnome won't have 3.12
19:47:14 <aday> not the best story in that regard
19:47:31 <oliverp_> <aday: I think we should be careful about it then
19:48:07 <aday> alright, shall we move on?
19:48:10 <oliverp_> not a good idea to promote stuff that don't ship the latest release
19:48:32 <alxgrtnstrngl> This is the tricky part about the 3.12 release, momentum just fell off afterwards...
19:48:36 <jjmarin> aday: I have in my todo list to modify https://wiki.debian.org/Gnome in order to be linked in http://www.gnome.org/getting-gnome/
19:48:43 <oliverp_> <aday: I think we can also save the last item to next meeting
19:49:00 <jjmarin> aday: I think you have a mockup for http://www.gnome.org/getting-gnome/
19:49:05 <aday> jjmarin, ah yes. it'd be good to follow up on that
19:49:10 <oliverp_> <aday: then we have two strong items for the next one.
19:49:38 <oliverp_> aday: its quite late here and I think we have had a really good meeting
19:50:14 <oliverp_> I have to run at lest very soon
19:50:36 <aday> oliverp_, seems a bit strange to finish early and still have outstanding agenda items, but if you have to go...
19:50:37 <alxgrtnstrngl> Okay, well I have a quick update on the last item...
19:50:47 <alxgrtnstrngl> It wont take that long.
19:50:50 <aday> #topic Enterprise engagement at the distribution level.
19:51:12 <alxgrtnstrngl> Okay, I've massively cut down my previous ideas and went back to basics.
19:51:31 <alxgrtnstrngl> Enterprise will have to be run through the distribution desktops teams and GNOME teams.
19:51:33 <jjmarin> good start with the basics :-)
19:51:47 <alxgrtnstrngl> I'm not making too many assumptions.
19:52:01 <alxgrtnstrngl> Here's the public etherpad entry, if you want to add comments please do https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/gnome-enterprise-doc
19:53:32 <aday> alxgrtnstrngl, you want to set up a different team for this plan of yours?
19:53:59 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, yes it's really tangential to the current engagement team that deals with the public and free-software community
19:54:10 <aday> alxgrtnstrngl, i don't think so at all
19:54:37 <aday> the public includes many "enterprise" users
19:55:44 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, true but basically I need to build a team
19:56:10 <alxgrtnstrngl> how that team coordinates with general engagement can be worked out later and will evolve.
19:56:14 <aday> alxgrtnstrngl, i don't see why you can't do that within the existing engagement team
19:56:23 <alxgrtnstrngl> It's a time and resources issue
19:56:46 <aday> if it gets too big or distracting split it out, but i think we want to preserve as much coordination as possible
19:56:58 <hashem> +1 aday
19:57:02 <aday> can't have one team saying one thing and another saying something else
19:57:12 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, agree
19:57:53 <alxgrtnstrngl> But I want to get some more people involved, people on the desktop teams at the leading distributors, and I need some ideas on how to accomplish that
19:58:09 <jjmarin> I think it is a good idea to approach enterprise customers and providers
19:58:17 <aday> alxgrtnstrngl, also, i want to be clear - we need to have someone senior involved if you are going to be talking to important figures/organisations
19:58:48 <aday> we can't have a rogue team speaking on behalf of the project without oversight
19:58:49 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, true
19:58:55 <jjmarin> A first step could be to get together our current contributors who works for enterprise solutions with GNOME
19:59:31 <alxgrtnstrngl> jjmarin, that would be great
20:00:03 <aday> alxgrtnstrngl, you might encounter a conflict of interest with those desktop teams. i would imagine they will be more interested in getting customers for themselves rather than helping gnome :)
20:00:28 <aday> or they might use this as a way to get us to do their marketing work for them, which raises some tricky issues
20:00:52 <aday> although, tbh, i'm not sure which desktop teams are interested in gnome other than the one at red hat
20:01:11 <aday> and i'm pretty sure they are already involved in gnome engagement ;)
20:01:27 <jjmarin> I'm thinking in http://www.mtier.org/
20:01:29 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, right but there's always a give and take.
20:01:58 <alxgrtnstrngl> What I'm talking about is also vendor neutral for it to work.
20:02:48 <aday> #agree Alex to get his enterprise initiative started within the Engagement Team, then go from there.
20:02:49 <jjmarin> we have a mailing list for gnome deployments with too much success
20:03:37 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, I think coordinating with the enterprise guys within GNOME would be a start, then next the distributions...
20:04:03 <alxgrtnstrngl> I just need to know who those people are and begin the collaborative process
20:04:28 <aday> alxgrtnstrngl, i'm not sure what you mean by "enterprise guys"
20:05:23 <aday> but anyway, i need to go eat
20:05:38 <aday> i'll wrap the meeting up, but feel free to carry on talking
20:05:42 <alxgrtnstrngl> aday, ok
20:05:48 <aday> #endmeeting