#a11y-meeting Meeting

Meeting started by API at 15:05:16 UTC (full logs).

Meeting summary

  1. Progress towards 3.16 (API, 15:05:29)
    1. This week is 3.15.4 release week (API, 15:05:38)
    2. last additions on ATK are math-related roles. They are going directly as roles, after finding that the role-subrole work became a big chunk. Hopefully role-subroles would be a 3.18 thing, but having math roles now, would give us more info on that work while implementing them (API, 15:06:52)
    3. I personally toyed a little with the gnome-shell selected event order emission, but not enough to get something ready, will try again this week (API, 15:07:26)
    4. that gdm patch is not reviewed yet, so I guess that next action would be IRC ping (and as agreed, asking about the grey screen of crash on gnome-shell) (API, 15:08:03)
    5. Joanie has been adding support in Orca for the newly-accessible Evolution GUI. (joanie, 15:21:14)
    6. In doing so, she's found some things which can be improved ("status" cell/column needs a better accessible name), along with some bugs (dead accessibles, missing states, etc.). She has not yet filed these as she's still working through identifying them as she implements support in Orca. (joanie, 15:21:23)
    7. There's also the problem of the body of a received message not being something you can arrow into, which the Evo developers closed as NOTGNOME. (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=711350) (joanie, 15:21:44)
    8. Joanie tried to hack around this by setting the caret position via the accessible text interface, but there's one or two bugs preventing that. (joanie, 15:21:44)
    9. One is a WebKit bug (WebKit1? -- who's maintaining that anyway?). (joanie, 15:21:53)
    10. The other is something Joanie is not (yet) sure about, namely: Even when setting the caret officially works (according to the accessible text interface implemented by WebKitGtk), the caret won't actually move there unless the parent container is focused. And you cannot focus the parent container without clicking on it. (joanie, 15:22:04)
    11. That issue needs further investigation. In the meantime, in order to continue making progress, Joanie is attempting to hack around that by synthesizing mouse clicks via AT-SPI2. Even if that works (it's hit or miss),there's that whole Wayland, mouse clicks, security issue stuff. So the sad hack might not ultimately be an option. :( And if it's a WebKit1 thing.... (joanie, 15:22:17)
    12. Joanie hopes we can do some sort of accessibility-based work around and add it to Evolution. Maybe a grab focus via the component interface could do the same thing as a click does (currently that doesn't work). Joanie would be interested in knowing what Mike and others think about that. (joanie, 15:22:29)
    13. Lastly, Joanie would like to know how much time Mike realistically can devote to this. If not much, she might actually try to fix some of the things in Evo herself in her CopiousSpareTime (tm). ;) But if Mike can do that, Joanie can keep focusing on the Orca half of the problem and we might be able to achieve Evolution accessibility as the big accomplishment for GNOME 3.16. (joanie, 15:22:43)
    14. ACTION: Joanie will start filing bugs against Evo for Mike. (joanie, 15:24:17)
    15. ACTION: Joanie will investigate the current situation with respect to WK1 maintainence. (joanie, 15:32:22)
    16. It's still pending some discussion about GNOME keyboard navigation https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-devel/2014-November/msg00017.html (jjmarin, 15:35:53)

  2. w3c updates (API, 15:40:09)
    1. Rich, Joanie, and I are having a discussion about how to map the ARIA group role. (clown, 15:41:02)
    2. , For reference, here is the spec: http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#group (clown, 15:41:44)
    3. we currently map it so ROLE_PANEL. (clown, 15:41:57)
    4. But, Rich thinks that wrong, saying: "A panel does not apply a group. It is just a space to draw in. The panel could have just text in it." (clown, 15:42:58)
    5. I think Rich is actually describing ROLE_CANVAS when he says it's someting to draw into. (clown, 15:43:23)
    6. ROLE_PANEL is defined as "A generic container that is often used to group objects." (clown, 15:44:59)
    7. The definition of the aria role group is "A set of user interface object which are not intended to be included in a page summary or table of contents by assistive technologies." (clown, 15:46:34)
    8. for completeness, ROLE_CANVAS is defined as "Object that can be drawn into and is used to trap events." (clown, 15:47:20)
    9. There exists a aria-setsize and aria-posinset to declare the size of, say, a listbox and the index of each item in the list. (clown, 15:55:52)
    10. There is an example of these in the spec for aria-setsize: http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#aria-setsize (clown, 15:56:25)
    11. It's "example 20". (clown, 15:56:35)
    12. Note that the aria-setsize is on the individual items in the listbox, not on the listbox itself. (clown, 15:57:28)
    13. There is a proposal to add aria-colindex and aria-rowindex specifically for tabular kinds of objects, such as grids and tables. (clown, 15:58:01)
    14. Alex prefers to put those on the column/row object, not on the cells themselves. (clown, 15:58:54)
    15. I have argued that it's easier for ATs if those properties are on the cells themselves, since they do not have to look up the parent to find the information. (clown, 15:59:34)
    16. Note: Alex is Alex Surkhov in this case. (clown, 15:59:54)
    17. See this email (part of a larger thread): https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0065.html (clown, 16:01:35)
    18. Finally, joanie added the following in a response: "If the latter, wouldn't aria-colindex be a property of the cell and not the row?" (clown, 16:02:47)
    19. Joanie's email is here: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0118.html (clown, 16:02:59)
    20. https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkTableCell.html (joanie, 16:05:18)
    21. ACTION: clown will re-read it, and we will discuss (or not) again next week (API, 16:08:34)


Meeting ended at 16:09:06 UTC (full logs).

Action items

  1. Joanie will start filing bugs against Evo for Mike.
  2. Joanie will investigate the current situation with respect to WK1 maintainence.
  3. clown will re-read it, and we will discuss (or not) again next week


Action items, by person

  1. clown
    1. clown will re-read it, and we will discuss (or not) again next week
  2. UNASSIGNED
    1. Joanie will start filing bugs against Evo for Mike.
    2. Joanie will investigate the current situation with respect to WK1 maintainence.


People present (lines said)

  1. API (126)
  2. joanie (121)
  3. clown (62)
  4. jjmarin (11)
  5. mgorse (5)
  6. Services (4)


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