#a11y-meeting Meeting

Meeting started by API at 15:06:10 UTC (full logs).

Meeting summary

  1. Progress towards 3.16 (API, 15:06:14)
    1. recently we had the 3.15.1 release (API, 15:07:07)
    2. as far as I know, not a lot of new stuff, at least in relation with API additions (API, 15:07:22)
    3. Joanie started filing bugs for what is missing. (joanie, 15:08:20)
    4. She has not yet done the actions-related stuff insofar as filing a bug with all of them. (joanie, 15:08:57)
    5. The ongoing question is interfaces versus the use of AtkAction. (joanie, 15:09:16)

  2. W3C updates (API, 15:16:58)
    1. Joseph put out a relatively complete, but still rough, editors' draft of the name and description computation. (clown, 15:18:19)
    2. It is here: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html (clown, 15:18:32)
    3. the guts of the algorithm is in this section: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#mapping_additional_nd_te (clown, 15:18:54)
    4. there is also section on mapping of name and description: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#accessible-name-and-description-mapping (clown, 15:19:17)
    5. and, a section on name/desription change events: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#events (clown, 15:19:34)
    6. Because of the intense TPAC meetings, most W3C meetings were cancelled this week. (clown, 15:20:02)
    7. Joanie spent the last week at the W3C's TPAC. Lots of meetings, hallway conversations, etc. (joanie, 15:27:55)
    8. Amongst the most notable topics are user intentions and the possibility of a role explostion. (joanie, 15:27:58)
    9. User intentions, which we were talking about previous topic, are (as Joseph was stating) a reflection of what the user wants (is intending) to accomplish. For instance, not "click" but "play music"; not "shift+right" but "select the next character". (joanie, 15:28:01)
    10. A lot of the interest around user intentions is coming out of the Editing efforts / folks. (joanie, 15:28:05)
    11. Editing code being more than "editing"; it involves any interaction with text, including non-editable text. (joanie, 15:28:08)
    12. There is similar intentiony stuff being done in the IndieUI working group (which Joanie has just joined) (joanie, 15:28:11)
    13. There is also a document related to all of this being done by someone else (accessibility person) at Microsoft. (Cynthia Shelly) (joanie, 15:28:14)
    14. During TPAC, the (editing) guy leading the effort on user intentions talked to us (accessibility) folks on several occasions. (joanie, 15:28:37)
    15. I gave an explanation to him (and others) about why this stuff should be bigger than editing. (joanie, 15:29:05)
    16. Example: A user in Twitter moves to the next tweet in the timeline by pressing J (joanie, 15:29:34)
    17. What ATs get as a result is even spewage based on what happened to the DOM (and I guess render tree as well). (joanie, 15:30:06)
    18. What ATs do NOT get is something like "object:focus-next-item". As a result, they play many sad, heuristic, guessing games trying to decide what to present, what to ignore, etc. (joanie, 15:30:59)
    19. Happily, there seems to be some general agreement that, yes, user intentions are awesome for accessibility :) (joanie, 15:31:29)
    20. And Ben (Microsoft editing guy) asked me to file some issues around this against his Editing-specific docs in progress so that we can take them into account *somewhere* (to be determined). (joanie, 15:32:18)
    21. That somewhere may be IndieUI or not. <insert shrug here> (joanie, 15:32:45)
    22. But as you can (hopefully) see from my deep dive above, intentions ARE actions -- if we do actions better, expanding them beyond device-specific stuff. (joanie, 15:33:26)
    23. And some are already doing that sort of expansion. Example: Mozilla did an AtkAction "showlongdesc". (joanie, 15:33:54)
    24. The other, item of interest -- which I won't deep dive on (really) is the possibility of a role explosion^W expansion. (joanie, 15:34:26)
    25. We met with the digital publishing group and their roles are going to be written up by them for our (accessibility) consideration. (joanie, 15:34:59)
    26. But the feeling seems to be that valid ones will be included and mapped like other roles. (joanie, 15:35:21)
    27. Joanie thinks we (ARIA) should consider subroles. But after suggesting that and discussing it in depth at TPAC, the impression she gets is that won't happen. (joanie, 15:35:53)
    28. Having said that, ATK/AT-SPI2 can still have subroles (like Apple's AX API already does). So an ARIA-based role explosion doesn't have to hurt us. :) (joanie, 15:36:31)
    29. Lastly, related to this, we discussed (again) localized role names and the possibility of localized state names. (joanie, 15:36:56)
    30. Two examples of the latter: An on/off "switch" is a toggle button (pressed/not pressed) or two-state checkbox (checked/not checked). (joanie, 15:37:50)
    31. But what sighted users see and what end users probably want to hear is "on/off". (joanie, 15:38:11)
    32. If and how to implement this is still under discussion. (joanie, 15:38:26)
    33. The other example btw is testing related. But I guess that doesn't need to be mentioned here. (joanie, 15:38:49)
    34. https://developer.gnome.org/atk/stable/AtkAction.html#atk-action-get-name (clown, 15:56:23)

  3. misc time (even marketing!) (API, 15:58:44)
    1. bug 730505 was reviewed by mgorse and API (API, 16:00:26)
    2. patryk already added new patches (API, 16:00:37)
    3. they would be reviewed when possible (API, 16:00:42)


Meeting ended at 16:01:53 UTC (full logs).

Action items

  1. (none)


People present (lines said)

  1. joanie (146)
  2. API (101)
  3. clown (54)
  4. Services (3)


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