14:06:05 <API> #startmeeting
14:06:05 <Services> Meeting started Thu Oct  2 14:06:05 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:06:05 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:06:18 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.14
14:06:18 * clown waves
14:06:33 <API> #info 3.14.0 was released
14:06:48 <API> #info since then a relevant bug was solved:
14:06:57 <API> #info https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=728319
14:07:08 <Services> 04Bug 728319: normal, Normal, ---, at-spi-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Hangs when browsing using artist view
14:07:19 <API> #info this bug is similar to bug 737376 (likely duplicates)
14:07:30 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=737376 normal, Normal, ---, at-spi-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Cleaning early event filtering of objects with state MANAGES_DESCENDANTS
14:07:37 <API> hmm
14:07:39 <API> typo
14:07:58 <API> #info this bug is similar to bug 730118 (likely duplicates)
14:08:09 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=730118 normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, GtkTreeView very slow since 3.12
14:08:22 <API> #info this time it was solved by doing (even more) event filtering based on MANAGES_DESCENDANTS state
14:08:35 <joanie> :)
14:08:37 <API> #info it was marked to be included on 3.14.1
14:09:05 <API> #info taking into account that due those two bugs, there are code to do event filtering based on MANAGES_DESCENDANTS
14:09:26 <API> #info bug 737376 was created to do post 3.14 cleaning
14:09:50 <API> #info as mentioned on the bug, improve the documentation of MANAGES_DESCENDANTS would also be good
14:09:55 <API> done
14:10:06 * joanie would love less event flooding
14:10:51 <joanie> Anyhoo, I've got a quick post-3.14 a11y fix
14:11:21 <joanie> #info Bug 731046, which isn't an a11y issue per se, did result in a reliable Evince segfault triggered by a11y support.
14:11:32 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=731046 critical, Normal, ---, evince-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, Segfault on truncated PDF document
14:11:46 <joanie> #info Fix committed. Now truncated PDFs are just useless and unreadable rather than a crasher. ;)
14:11:49 <joanie> done
14:12:13 <API> hmm
14:12:13 <joanie> related aside: Evince has been crashy in general, not due to a11y stuff
14:12:17 <API> was that a a11y bug?
14:12:21 <joanie> most of those have been fixed
14:12:27 <joanie> it was fixed in the a11y code
14:12:29 <joanie> so.... yeah?
14:12:38 <joanie> https://git.gnome.org/browse/evince/commit/?id=c0ecc9564fceb12b3580adac3a1257d7feb2b87f
14:13:11 <API> ok thanks
14:13:19 <joanie> most of the evince crashers are not
14:13:23 <joanie> that one is
14:13:28 <API> in any case, more news, comments or stuff on this topic?
14:13:29 <joanie> most of the crashers are now fixed
14:13:36 <joanie> but not in 3.14.0 :(
14:13:40 <joanie> nothing from me
14:14:30 <clown> nada from me
14:14:57 <mgorse> I made a 3.14 release, but nothing else from me
14:15:08 <API> mgorse, ok
14:15:12 <API> mgorse, btw
14:15:30 <API> for 3.14.1 this fix on at-spi2-atk should be included
14:15:41 <mgorse> right
14:15:42 <API> but I think that those related to dbus configuration on at-spi2-core
14:15:56 <API> should not, and wait until we understand all the situation
14:15:59 <mgorse> yeah, I need to comment on magpie's patch
14:16:12 <API> well, dbus documentation was confusing
14:16:22 <API> and simon <surname> fisrt comments were misleading
14:16:47 <API> I understood that he agreed that first patch was correct, but when magpie committed it it not
14:16:49 <mgorse> I need to create branches
14:17:05 <API> hmm, well, probably it would be better to info this, just in case joanie and clown are not understanding anything
14:17:09 <clown> "it it not"?
14:17:39 <API> #info during these days, there was also a slight discussion on bug 722738
14:17:49 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=722738 normal, Normal, ---, at-spi-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Uses custom config to call standard session configuration
14:17:50 <API> #info in general, it is about the dbus file configuration
14:18:14 <API> #info reading dbus documentation, I agree that some stuff is not really clear, and probably some changes are needed
14:18:29 <API> #info I also created a freedesktop bug about dbus documentation
14:19:02 <API> #info that lead Simon McVittie, one of the dbus maintainers, to come to the bug and explain some stuff, and give some suggestions
14:19:19 <API> #info based on that, a patch was approved and comitted, and then Simon mentioned that was not sure about it
14:19:56 <API> #info for that reason, Im suggesting to not include them on 3.14.x and include on 3.16 cycle when things became clearer
14:20:04 <API> mgorse, btw, for me these days
14:20:10 <API> also with the event flood bug
14:20:33 <API> is complex to test my changed with an jhbuild at-spi2
14:20:52 <API> even running jhbuild session (gnome-shell)
14:21:03 <API> it is still using my system at-spi2
14:21:11 <API> I need to manually kill it
14:21:21 <API> something that was "good enough" for the event bug
14:21:43 <API> but would not be good to test this specific bug, as it is about configuration files
14:22:05 <mgorse> I assume you mean the system at-spi2-registryd, rather than the at-spi library
14:22:20 <API> yes, Im talking about at-spi2-registryd sorry
14:22:30 <API> what I mean is that even having it built on jhbuild
14:22:37 <API> and running a jhbuild gnome session
14:22:48 <API> is system at-spi2-registryd the one used by default
14:24:12 <API> in any case, probably "testing and initializing jhbuild at-spi2" is material for other moment
14:24:19 <API> so, moving to next topic?
14:24:33 <mgorse> It works for me, although maybe fixing this bug will help
14:26:02 <API> #topic W3C updates
14:26:09 <API> clown, joanie ?
14:26:18 * joanie defers as always to clown
14:26:19 <joanie> :)
14:26:36 <clown> thanks, joanie, but after my first update, I may defer to you.
14:26:42 <joanie> ruh roh
14:26:43 <joanie> but ok
14:27:16 <clown> #info There is an upcoming face-to-face meeting for all of the W3C at the end of Oct, referred to as TPAC.
14:27:41 <clown> #info One of the tasks to get started around that time is to start looking at implemenations of ARIA 1.1
14:28:19 <clown> #info And, where the spec is correct, but the implementation is wrong, start filing bugs against the various browsers, in their own bug reporting system.
14:29:05 <clown> #info In addition, the ARIA 1.1. working group will attempt to keep a central list of all the bugs as they appear in one of their wikis.
14:29:25 <clown> #info the wiki page has been set up here:  https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIA_Implementation_Issues
14:30:15 <clown> #info  It's very bare bones right now, but I imagine there will be entries for ATK/AT-SPI related ARIA issues.
14:30:26 <clown> questions about that?
14:31:19 <API> just to refresh my memory
14:31:30 <API> what are the list of browsers to fill bugs against?
14:32:16 <clown> #info Currently, the wiki page lists Chrome, FireFox, IE, Opera, and Safari.
14:32:43 <clown> I'm not sure where WebKitGTK fits in here.  joanie?
14:32:46 * joanie will add Epiphany/WebKitGtk when she starts testing and filing
14:32:54 <joanie> After Safari probably
14:32:55 <joanie> :)
14:33:16 <clown> Okay, should we info that API?  And, does it answer you question.
14:33:20 <API> ok, I don't have more questions, thanks
14:33:24 <API> not needed
14:33:28 <API> if it is in the wiki
14:34:16 <clown> okay.  I expect that under the FireFox heading in that wiki page, will be subheadings along the lines of ATK/AT-SPI, IA2, UIA.  The other a11y APIs.
14:34:26 * joanie nods
14:34:34 <API> ok
14:34:45 <API> then if you don't mind, I will move to next topic
14:34:55 <clown> I have two other potential topics, but they might be too detailed for this meeting.
14:35:03 <clown> I need joanie's advice.
14:35:20 <joanie> uh oh ;)
14:35:39 <clown> The two topics are (1) the proper role of table cells when the table has role="presentation", and (2) indeterminate aria-setsize.
14:35:56 <joanie> I thought we covered this already?
14:36:09 <clown> we == this group?
14:36:20 <joanie> we == you and I at W3C meetings
14:36:28 <joanie> but we can do it here too
14:36:44 <clown> that's the essence of my question:  is there any point to bringing it up here.
14:36:46 <clown> ?
14:36:52 <joanie> oh ha
14:37:00 <joanie> up to you and everyone else
14:37:18 <clown> well, I was deferring to your opinion.  so, everyone else?
14:37:28 <clown> maybe it's misc time stuff.
14:37:51 <joanie> it's not that it's misc imho
14:38:01 <joanie> it's that the topic is really: What does Orca expect?
14:38:06 <joanie> I provided that answer
14:38:15 <joanie> if people want to discuss what Orca expects, then sure
14:39:04 * joanie sees no one jumping up and down eagerly ;)
14:39:04 <clown> ok.
14:39:09 <clown> me neither.
14:39:21 <clown> feel free to move on, API.
14:39:25 <joanie> :)
14:39:30 <API> ok
14:39:36 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
14:39:40 <API> ups
14:39:40 <API> no
14:39:41 <clown> lol!
14:39:43 <API> #topic marketing
14:39:45 <API> jjmarin, ?
14:39:53 <jjmarin> Whatever Orca expects, joanie should know :-)
14:40:05 <joanie> jjmarin: Not necessarily
14:40:08 <joanie> but in this case, yes
14:40:22 <jjmarin> ok
14:40:26 <jjmarin> #info GNOME is again the default Desktop in Debian. One of the main reasons is the accessibility support. Congrats folks ! ;-)
14:40:36 <joanie> yay!
14:40:43 <jjmarin> #info related links: https://lists.debian.org/debian-accessibility/2014/09/msg00008.html https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/Requalification/Jessie http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/tasksel/tasksel.git/commit/?id=dce99f5f8d84e4c885e6beb4cc1bb5bb1d9ee6d7
14:40:44 <clown> wow.  cool.
14:40:44 <joanie> jjmarin: are you going to write up something?
14:40:57 <jjmarin> #info However, it seems the Debian a11y thinks Mate is the most accessible, mainly because the lack of visual options in GNOME (check the 1st link)
14:41:00 <joanie> like a GNOME official congrats to Debian?
14:41:07 * joanie looks
14:41:24 <jjmarin> Maybe we can take those critising as good feeback for future work
14:41:40 <jjmarin> BTW, joanie is mentioned in that email :-)
14:41:49 <jjmarin> they should mention all you anyway :-)
14:41:50 <API> lack of visual options?
14:41:59 <API> there are visual options on GNOME
14:42:05 <API> unless they mean that there are not enough
14:42:43 <joanie> I *think* he means users who are not blind or visually impaired
14:42:48 <jjmarin> not customisable enough, no magmifying possible with the needed quality, not enough visual customisations
14:42:49 <joanie> looking at the email
14:42:57 <joanie> ?
14:43:00 * joanie looks closer
14:43:20 <clown> "no magmifying possible with the needed quality"
14:43:42 <clown> he might be referrring to the way fonts are blurred when magnifying.
14:43:43 <clown> dunno.
14:43:55 <jjmarin> I guess so as well
14:44:46 <joanie> anyhoo, back to my earlier question
14:44:55 <clown> that's fairly typical of magnifiers, though.  not necessarily desirable, however.  I think ZoomText has  preference to clean that up.
14:45:01 <joanie> would it make sense for you jjmarin to work with the others on the Engagement team?
14:45:18 <joanie> to get out some official GNOME-congratulates-debian thang out?
14:45:45 <jjmarin> I can suggest so to the engagement team
14:46:20 <joanie> Whether or not it's a good idea, I dunno
14:46:28 <joanie> just tossing it out there for consideration
14:46:45 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will discuss that with the engagement team
14:46:56 <joanie> (And, yes, I do still ow you a blog post which I really plan to write for realz tomorrow)
14:47:00 <joanie> s/ow/owe/
14:47:22 <joanie> FWIW, my colleagues are also complaining that I don't blog about all the work I do
14:47:24 <jjmarin> #action that= official response for choosing GNOME
14:47:54 <API> ok, thanks everybody
14:47:55 <jjmarin> ok :-)
14:47:57 <API> so, moving on?
14:48:03 <jjmarin> there are nice work to talk about
14:48:07 <jjmarin> yes
14:48:11 <jjmarin> move on
14:48:38 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
14:48:47 <API> is just me or TPAC sounds like the name of a rapper?
14:48:56 <clown> it's not just you.
14:48:57 <joanie> hah
14:49:06 * API looking
14:49:08 <jjmarin> :-)
14:49:09 <joanie> It sounds like a political org to me
14:49:18 <API> oh
14:49:20 <API> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupac_Shakur
14:49:27 <API> then, Im not crazy
14:49:35 <clown> yes, you are.
14:49:38 <jjmarin> http://www.tpac.org/
14:49:40 <API> but not due this
14:49:45 <clown> right
14:50:41 <clown> http://www.w3.org/2014/11/TPAC/
14:51:10 <API> well, that was my miscellaneous and not useful at all addition
14:51:14 <API> something else?
14:52:07 <jjmarin> have a good TPAC ! :-)
14:52:41 <clown> I'm not going, but joanie is, although she might be sleeping on the street...
14:53:01 <joanie> clown: No. I'm taking a tax deduction ;)
14:53:06 <API> sleeping on the street?
14:53:11 <joanie> Staying at the Marriott
14:53:18 <joanie> API see twitter
14:53:27 <API> I saw the Marriott thing
14:53:37 <API> missed the sleep on street mention
14:53:44 <joanie> sleeping on the street because lack of hotel options
14:54:09 <clown> I was exaggerating, and jumping to conclusions.  Congrats on finding a hotel room, joanie.
14:54:11 <jjmarin> a nice park is better than the street
14:54:41 <jjmarin> :-)
14:56:17 <API> ok, so after the relieve of joanie not sleeping on the street or under the bridge
14:56:23 <API> anything else or closing meeting?
14:56:28 <joanie> heh
14:56:29 <jjmarin> Someone is near to close the meeting ;-)
14:56:36 <clown> who?
14:56:46 <jjmarin> API
14:56:49 <API> yes, who?
14:56:53 <clown> realy?
14:56:53 <API> how he dares?
14:56:56 <jjmarin> hehe
14:57:01 <clown> he's not crazy, you know.
14:57:30 <API> Im crazy, but not because thinking that TPAC sounds like a rapper name
14:57:37 <API> #endmeeting