14:06:08 <API> #startmeeting
14:06:08 <Services> Meeting started Thu Sep 18 14:06:08 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:06:08 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:07:01 <API> #info This weeks is the 3.13.92 release
14:07:13 <API> #info also called 3.13.92 rc, rc as "Release candidate"
14:07:43 <API> #info Hard Code Freeze begins
14:07:56 <API> #info we needed to ask for the first break freeze request
14:08:01 * clown skates on the freezing ice
14:08:23 <API> #info due bug 736821
14:08:23 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=736821 normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, a11y: Most of the accessible tree is not exposed, and is partially wrong
14:08:23 * joanie shivers
14:08:25 * clown avoids hole in the ice
14:08:42 <API> #info in summary: while testing (just in case) 3.13.92 I realized that most of the accessible tree was not there
14:08:50 <clown> what a depressing title on that bugzilla.
14:09:50 <API> #info is a collateral effect of the previous bug 735908, as some extra cleaning was made when it was not needed
14:09:50 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735908 normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, a11y: Accessibility tree is not being exposed
14:10:10 <API> #info the patch was trivial enough, approved by Jasper, and the freeze request break was granted, so the bug was solved
14:10:19 <clown> \o/
14:10:27 <joanie> Yay! Thanks API!!
14:10:44 <API> #info anyway, it was hard to debug. During this process I found that at-spi2 doesn't works without cache
14:10:59 <API> #info I will open a bug later about that, to take into account in the future
14:11:31 <API> #info as part of the already mentioned "just-in-case", Alejandro will also make a check on gnome-shell, for missing labels or any other bug
14:11:32 <API> done
14:12:43 <joanie> #info Joanie did the Orca 3.13.92 release yesterday (yes, late). Lots of last-minute commits, but the users are testing and so far nothing has blown up. Joanie hopes to not have to ask for code freeze break herself. :)
14:12:54 <joanie> done
14:13:01 <API> joanie, btw, as you are the master minute-take
14:13:14 <joanie> ?
14:13:17 <API> I have just realized that I forgot to use #topic first
14:13:29 <joanie> oops
14:13:31 <joanie> Minutes are out of my hands now
14:13:38 <joanie> it's all done by the bot (not our bot; GNOME's)
14:13:41 <API> ok, that is what I suspected
14:13:44 <joanie> sorry
14:13:52 <joanie> anyhoo no big deal
14:13:54 <API> well, I was the one making the mistake
14:14:01 <API> yes,
14:14:27 <API> so, more questions or comments on this topic (being the topic "Progress towards 3.14")
14:14:29 <API> ?
14:14:30 <clown> he's not here, but jhernandez did the 3.13.92 release of Accerciser.
14:14:46 <clown> and I just pinged him in another room.
14:15:25 <API> oh yes, I saw some activity on an wayland-related accerciser bug
14:15:36 <API> but I think that was just closed as obsolete
14:15:56 <clown> that's right, he mentioned to me at yesterday's GPII meeting that accerciser works with wayland.
14:16:46 <clown> he's not responding to me in the other channel, btw.
14:16:53 <API> well, it would be good to know if some new stuff was added on the release
14:17:16 <API> I don't tend to use accerciser too much, is hard to use with gnome-shell
14:17:23 * clown checking his email.
14:17:38 <API> in any case, he have time to came back here later or next week
14:17:43 <API> so, moving to next topic?
14:17:59 <clown> sure.
14:18:46 <API> #topic W3C updates
14:18:48 <API> joanie, clown ?
14:18:56 <joanie> nothing from me
14:18:57 <clown> two things, from me.
14:19:36 <jjmarin> me neither
14:19:36 <clown> #info The accessible and name computation document is about 70% done in terms of pushing it to github.
14:20:00 <clown> #info Joseph will finish that first commit by next Monday at the latest.
14:20:41 <clown> #info The issue regarding custom roles is recycling back to the top of the list, and may be discussed at next Monday teleconference.
14:21:04 <clown> #info Does anyone here want to comment on that issue:  https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/427
14:21:11 <clown> done, questions?
14:22:11 <jjmarin> nope
14:22:56 <API> no questions, if I don't forget I will try to look to that link, I don¡t remember right now my password for that page, I have that annotated somewhere
14:22:58 <API> I hope
14:23:31 <jjmarin> try password safe :-)
14:23:56 <jjmarin> http://passwordsafe.sourceforge.net/
14:24:15 <clown> The gist of it is that some people want a way of defining custom roles over and above the enumerated set.  I know you have misgivings about that.
14:25:46 <clown> Look at the last action item on the meeting page:  https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility/Meetings
14:26:00 <clown> (first bullet).
14:26:13 <API> well
14:26:18 <API> but as far as I remember
14:26:22 <API> the plan was writing that
14:26:23 * joanie needs to update that page
14:26:34 <API> but as the discussion moved quickly
14:26:43 <API> we concluded on one meeting, to "wait and see"
14:26:55 <API> but is true that was a long time ago
14:27:03 <API> should we revisite that "wait and see" decision?
14:27:09 <clown> fair enough.  And, I know joanie will be at Monday's meeting.
14:27:10 <API> I mean
14:27:17 <API> should I try to jump in
14:27:18 <API> ?
14:27:27 <API> wait for that Monday's meeting?
14:28:08 <API> send a "that solution is the equivalent to hide the dust under the rug for accessible roles" one-liner email?
14:28:19 <joanie> :)
14:28:30 <API> well jokes apart
14:28:42 <API> what about wait until this Monday, and depending on what Joanmarie says
14:28:50 <API> I will write and send that email?
14:28:56 <clown> If it is discussed,  I think gnome-a11y's position should be put forward, however, nothing will be written in stone after that meeting, so wait and see is another option.
14:29:28 <API> well, gnome-a11y position is somewhat a grandparent story
14:29:39 <API> "we already tried that; didn't work; we are not doing it anymore"
14:29:59 <API> but as far as I understand
14:30:13 <API> there are a lot of votes to go on on extending roles
14:31:26 <clown> true.  you need moziall, microsoft, apple, and google (the browser implementors) to all agree to the same way of supporting custom roles.
14:31:30 <clown> *mozilla
14:31:51 <API> well, yes, they need to agree
14:32:03 <API> but as far as I understand, a lot are in favor
14:32:09 <API> just to confirm
14:32:19 <API> right now, how is the level of support of custom roles?
14:32:22 <API> I mean
14:32:38 <API> is something like "70% of the people at the thread thinks that are a good idea"?
14:33:27 <clown> I don't remember exactly the percentage.  But, I don't think anyone outright rejected it.
14:33:52 <clown> It's in a state of "how are you going to achieve it"?
14:34:17 <clown> And, it might turn out that the end of that discussion is:  it's not a good idea.  Maybe.
14:34:41 <API> ok, so, in order to not use too much time here, and to summarize
14:35:08 <API> #info Joseph bring again to the table the action iteam about sending to W3C a mail related to custom roles
14:35:19 <API> #info specifically the position of gnome-a11y (that is against)
14:35:32 <API> #info the last time we talked about that, the decision was "wait and see"
14:35:58 <API> #info conclusion was that we will wait till next w3c meeting on Monday, and depending on the outcome
14:36:04 <API> #info a mail will be sent
14:36:05 <API> done
14:36:10 <clown> cool.
14:36:16 <API> so, something else? I'm forgetting something? moving?
14:36:24 <clown> I'm done.
14:38:08 <API> #topic Marketing
14:38:11 <API> jjmarin, ?
14:38:28 <jjmarin> #info Very calm in the marketing front. Joanie will pass me some info about her achievements in Orca 3.14, and anyone who wants something to spread out the word about GNOME 3.14 a11y is invited to do so.
14:38:48 <jjmarin> Not in a hurry, so joanie, reach me when you feel recovered from the release hackaton
14:38:56 <joanie> thanks :)
14:38:58 <jjmarin> or write blog post if you prefer :-)
14:39:06 <joanie> i may do both
14:39:15 <jjmarin> wow :-)
14:39:34 <jjmarin> super awesome
14:39:35 <API> ok, thank you
14:39:48 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
14:40:06 <API> something not included on agenda to mention/talk about?
14:40:47 <jjmarin> So we were near of a release disarter, thanks API for save us :-)
14:41:27 <jjmarin> s/disarter/disaster
14:41:37 <API> well, fwiw, the last disaster was partially caused by me
14:41:44 <API> as I did some extra cleaning that was not needed
14:41:50 <joanie> sssshhhhhhhhhhhh
14:41:59 <jjmarin> hehe
14:42:09 <jjmarin> you're a very clean :-)
14:42:11 <API> although I guess that jumping from a "No accessible tree at all" to "Most of the accessible tree is not there" is an improvement
14:42:22 <joanie> heh
14:42:41 <joanie> the accessible shrubbery
14:43:26 <jjmarin> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shrubbery
14:43:37 <joanie> i guess "shrub" is what I really mean
14:43:56 * API shrubs
14:44:02 <jjmarin> hehe
14:44:04 <joanie> ba-dum-chhhh
14:44:18 <clown> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_who_say_Ni
14:44:27 <joanie> I love that movie
14:45:03 <jjmarin> A shrubbery movie :-)
14:45:12 <API> at the end, he was a ghost all the time
14:45:37 <clown> Ni!
14:46:00 <API> ok, miscellaneous enough
14:46:03 <API> I will close the meeting
14:46:06 <API> thanks for coming
14:46:12 <clown> thanks for chairing, API
14:46:21 <API> see you on #a11y
14:46:23 <API> #endmeeting