14:05:54 <API> #startmeeting
14:05:54 <Services> Meeting started Thu Sep  4 14:05:54 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:05:54 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:06:03 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.14
14:06:18 <API> #info This week is 3.13.91 release
14:06:58 <API> #info so to the already in effect API/ABI and UI freeze
14:07:04 <API> #info we add now String freeze
14:07:18 <joanie> It's very chilly indeed.
14:07:31 <API> #info next release on Mon 15, that will add the hard code freeze
14:07:43 <API> #info About blockers
14:07:59 <API> #info This week, while fixing some small bugs on evince reported by the new qa team
14:08:19 <API> #info I found bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=735908
14:08:19 <Services> 04Bug 735908: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, a11y: Accessibility tree is not being exposed
14:08:37 <API> #info in short, the accessibility tree was not exposed at all, so gnome-shell was not accessible with orca
14:08:48 <API> #info we detected it last year, but only on wayland
14:09:01 <API> #info at least since 3.13.90, it started to happen on X too
14:09:14 <API> #info as we were on API freeze, it was solved by a workaround.
14:09:33 <API> #info kudos to Emmanuele Bassi and Jasper, as they were really quick with the reviews+approvals
14:09:39 <API> #info the bug is fixed now
14:09:59 <API> #info https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=734805
14:09:59 <Services> 04Bug 734805: normal, Normal, ---, at-spi-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Using AtspiCollection to match via interfaces seems broken and causes crashes
14:10:07 <API> #info after 3.13.91 release, a new list with the blocker bugs was sent
14:10:12 <API> #info this bug is still there
14:10:28 <API> #info but the crash is fixed, so it is not clear if it should be on the list or not
14:10:38 <mgorse> Yeah, thanks for the reminder. The crash is fixed, but I still need to test that matching on itnerfaces actually works.
14:10:45 <API> joanie, mgorse something to say?
14:10:58 <joanie> mgorse: me too. I'm setting up jhbuild etc now
14:11:13 <joanie> But I don't think it should be a blocker anymore
14:11:20 <API> well, the thing is that the main reason it was marked as blocker is because it was a crash
14:11:26 <joanie> exactly
14:11:44 <joanie> and now it's not a crash so I think it's not a blocker (any more)
14:11:47 <API> ok, so would you mind if I remove them from the blocker list?
14:11:55 <API> well, not them
14:11:59 <API> as is just one bug
14:12:00 <joanie> I wouldn't mind
14:12:04 <mgorse> That makes sense
14:12:05 <API> mgorse, ?
14:12:08 <API> ok, thanks
14:12:12 <API> so infoing ...
14:12:38 <API> #info after some debate on the meeting, and taking into account that the crash was solved, it was agreed to remove it from the blocker list
14:12:49 <API> ok, I'm done
14:12:51 <API> anyone else?
14:13:23 <joanie> nah
14:13:31 <joanie> I'm still re-writing Orca ;)
14:14:09 <clown> a sisyphusian task.
14:14:43 <joanie> actually making excellent progress. But it's an effort indeed.
14:15:14 <clown> i can imagine. worth doing, though.
14:15:20 * joanie nods
14:15:42 <API> ok, so moving then?
14:16:00 <clown> sure
14:16:05 <API> #topic W3C updates
14:16:08 <API> joanie, clown ?
14:16:15 * joanie defers to clown
14:16:33 <clown> not much new, since Mon was a holiday here in Canada and the U.S.
14:16:39 <clown> no Mon meeting.
14:16:48 <clown> I can think of one thing.
14:17:31 <clown> #info The accessible name and description computation is likely going to be carved out of the Core mappings document and placed in its own standalone document.
14:18:01 <clown> #info this will permit adding to it specific requirement for HTML and SVG.
14:18:10 <clown> done, questions.
14:19:02 <API> and ebooks?
14:19:11 <API> or ebooks follow htmls requirements?
14:19:17 <clown> #info:  the section on name and descriptiong is currently here:  http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/implementation/aria-implementation.html#mapping_additional_nd
14:20:03 <clown> API, good question.  I think the work on ebooks is too early to say much.  But, I suspect that ebooks will use a lot of html so maybe the rules for html will apply to ebooks.
14:20:13 <API> clown, ok
14:20:15 <API> "This hints to the assistive technology to do its own heuristic processing to repair the missing accessible name."
14:20:24 <API> here, the ball is yours
14:20:31 <API> get a name as you can
14:20:41 <API> ejem, jokes apart
14:20:43 <clown> you are talking about the speical case?
14:21:05 <clown> where the name computation comes up with nothing for an <img> element?
14:21:26 <API> well, just joking about "if you don't provide a name, be really clear, and let ATs find a name"
14:21:55 <clown> yes, I take that paragraph as big warning to authors to provide an explicit name.
14:22:31 <clown> or, mark the image with role="presentation", meaning decorative or for layout.
14:22:32 <API> well, some authors will read it as a freepath to not provide a name and assume that ATs can do their magic
14:23:12 <clown> point taken.  Do you have a better way of putting it?
14:23:24 <clown> Such that authors will not take that implication?
14:24:20 <API> well, probably Im just being snarky, the text seems clear enough that
14:24:23 <clown> Something like:  Authors should not rely on ATs to heuristically generate a name in these circumstances.  Authors should provide and explicit name.
14:24:23 <clown> ?
14:24:26 <API> authors should provide a name
14:24:31 <joanie> :)
14:24:32 <clown> right.
14:24:56 <clown> "great minds ...."
14:25:00 <clown> ;-)
14:25:02 <API> if they use that sentence as a freepath,they are just being a pettifogging lawyer
14:25:22 * clown looks up "pettifogging".
14:25:46 <API> is how wordreference translates the spanish "leguleyo" :P
14:25:56 <clown> http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pettifogging
14:26:01 <API> that is a kind of nitpicker-in-my-own-favor lawyer
14:26:07 <API> in any case
14:26:16 <API> although it seems that joanie liked your proposal
14:26:30 <API> not sure if we want to raise something for this
14:26:37 <joanie> Authors do silly things, sadly
14:27:00 <API> yes, we have plenty of war fronts open
14:27:17 <API> sorry for the noise, next time I will leave jokes for misc time
14:27:34 <API> so, anything else on this point? questions, doubts, no-jokes?
14:28:23 <clown> not from me.
14:29:07 <API> #topic Marketing
14:29:09 <API> jjmarin, ?
14:29:17 <jjmarin> Hi, I haven't had too much free time lately
14:29:27 <jjmarin> #info there were some mistakes in the wiki for the video that resulted in the deletion of my notes
14:29:38 <jjmarin> #info At least I would like to include that Document Reader has now support for PDF documents
14:30:09 <jjmarin> #info I'm thinking in sth like "Orca users will be delighted to know that Orca is faster and [whataever joanies think I can say] they will be able to read PDF documents"
14:30:28 <API> in sth?
14:30:38 <jjmarin> something
14:30:46 <API> ok, thanks
14:30:50 <joanie> jjmarin: as usual, wait until code freeze. then we can talk.
14:30:58 <joanie> I'd like to focus more on the Gecko stuff
14:31:07 <joanie> I may even blog about it.
14:31:20 <jjmarin> ok, that would be great
14:31:40 <joanie> we have 11 days of coding left. must. keep. hacking.
14:31:41 <joanie> ;)
14:31:49 <jjmarin> but I the PDF support in the Document Reader is something done, right ?
14:32:01 <joanie> improved
14:32:03 <joanie> not finished
14:32:22 <joanie> document accessibility is a huge task
14:32:28 <joanie> we are making good and steady progress
14:32:35 <jjmarin> Can we advertise in the video for GNOME 3.14 ?
14:32:35 <joanie> and documents are readible
14:32:43 <joanie> how?
14:32:50 <joanie> Orca presenting stuff?
14:33:00 <joanie> I probably wouldn't, but....
14:33:11 <joanie> or I'd do it as a separate video
14:33:13 <jjmarin> no, it is a sort of animation
14:33:20 <joanie> ah
14:33:34 <joanie> well, ... can we talk about it when code freeze hits?
14:34:03 <jjmarin> I can ask if they can wait
14:34:20 <jjmarin> the thing is they are working in the video with blender
14:34:33 <joanie> then leave it out
14:34:37 <joanie> if they cannot wait
14:35:01 <jjmarin> ok
14:35:55 <API> ok, jjmarin thanks
14:35:58 <joanie> (sorry, but hacking comes first)
14:36:00 <API> something else?
14:36:09 <API> (from jjmarin or any other on the meeting)
14:36:23 <jjmarin> ok
14:37:46 <jjmarin> we can move
14:38:31 <jjmarin> BTW, I don't too many ideas about thing to do in marketing lately. Please, tell me if you have any :-)
14:38:42 <API> jjmarin, ok
14:38:46 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
14:38:58 <API> so, something not included on agenda to mention?
14:39:11 <joanie> jjmarin: after I make more progress on the Orca + Gecko stuff, there will be marketing to do :)
14:39:28 <jjmarin> ok !!! +1
14:42:50 <jjmarin> Q and Mr Maen together. Invincible !!!!
14:42:52 <API> well, I don't see anyone raising their misc hand
14:42:59 <API> so I will end the meeting
14:43:04 <joanie> I have a misc hand?
14:43:06 <API> thanks for coming
14:43:19 * joanie resumes hacking
14:43:20 <clown> thanks for chairing
14:43:21 <API> I have plenty of stuff on my table
14:43:28 <clown> yah
14:43:29 <API> probably if I search I will find a hand
14:43:30 <clown> me too
14:43:31 <API> or something
14:43:41 <API> instantrimshot!
14:43:42 <jjmarin> me too
14:43:48 <clown> "or something" sounds ominous.
14:43:49 <API> so, ending meeting then
14:43:57 <jjmarin> ok
14:44:08 <API> clown, then I will not search, just in case
14:44:12 <API> #endmeeting