14:06:20 <API> #startmeeting
14:06:20 <Services> Meeting started Thu Aug 14 14:06:20 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:06:20 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:06:34 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.14
14:06:52 <API> #info Reminder: next Mon 18 is the 3.13.90 release
14:07:04 <API> #info that would mean the start of the API/ABI freeze
14:07:59 <API> #info if someone has in mind something that needs new API (probably me), would need to be quick or start to think on asking exceptions or implementing workarounds
14:08:36 <API> #topic GUADEC conclusions: release-team
14:08:43 <joanie> so much for my updates
14:08:55 <API> joanie I will give you the full floor for you later
14:09:03 <API> you can came back to the topic if you want
14:09:05 <joanie> for 3.14?
14:09:06 <jjmarin> joanie is in Mozilla office, right ?
14:09:07 <joanie> ok
14:09:13 <joanie> jjmarin: right
14:09:20 <joanie> ok, I'm hacking. ping me when it's my turn
14:09:27 <API> #info During GUADEC release-team has a small meeting plus a BOF
14:09:50 <API> #info as part of the conclusions, release-team will try to recruit fresh flood
14:10:18 <API> #info and as part of that, list their resposibilities (a list of tasks)
14:10:58 <API> #info I will write my part of "what I do on the release-team" on the wiki soon, but as you can imagine, it will be focused on being the a11y representative on the release-team
14:11:02 <API> done
14:11:07 <API> joanie, your turn
14:11:19 <API> do I need to use any command to give you full power and move between topics?
14:11:25 <joanie> I think so
14:12:09 <joanie> or you could reset the topic back to the first one
14:12:21 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.14
14:12:44 <joanie> #info Joanie is actively making significant changes to Orca, in particular its support for Gecko.
14:13:50 <joanie> #info Lots of bug fixes are being done. Also lots of changes to make Orca work more reliably, predictably, and consistently with NVDA (e.g. having a focus mode, a browse mode, a sticky focus mode, and configurable settings for automatic switching between them.)
14:14:18 <joanie> #info Joanie is also trying to implement support for clickables. Clickables being web elements with an onClick event handler.
14:14:45 <joanie> #info As part of this, Joanie believes she is exercising AtspiCollection code that may have never been exercised before.
14:14:56 <mgorse> that's quite possible
14:15:01 <joanie> #info In particular, trying to create a MatchRule in which there are accessible interfaces.
14:15:24 <joanie> #info It appears that the dbus signature (or whatever) is a single string: "s"
14:15:46 <joanie> #info It appears also that an array of strings are what is really expected. ("as" ?)
14:16:34 <joanie> #info There are a couple of problems with this, assuming Joanie is correct.
14:16:45 <joanie> #info One is, of course, that the functionality doesn't work.
14:17:16 <joanie> #info The other, arguably the larger one, is that the associated failure seems to trigger a fatal exception which crashes the AT foolish enough to try to use it. <grins>
14:17:41 <joanie> #info Joanie would like some input and if time permits help from Mike on this -- soon as the 3.14 deadline is soon.
14:17:58 <mgorse> Can you file a bug?
14:17:59 <joanie> #info In addition, there is an existing Mozilla/Thunderbird accessibility bug.
14:18:07 <joanie> mgorse: yes
14:18:16 <joanie> but I haven't had time to dig deeper and won't
14:18:24 <mgorse> ok
14:18:27 <joanie> getting back to my other info
14:19:09 <joanie> #info The conclusion in the comments seems to be: Mozilla/Thunderbird is doing the correct thing. Atspi is updating the tree when it shouldn't be. Or doing something else similar.
14:19:13 * joanie looks for that bug
14:19:26 <joanie> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=924915
14:19:27 <Services> 04Bug 924915: critical, --, ---, nobody, NEW , Significant lag with high cpu changing selection when arrowing over mail folders with many messages
14:19:42 <joanie> #info This is less time critical as it has been around forever.
14:20:11 <joanie> #info But if this really is a "bug" triggered by a not-ideal side effect of something ATSPI2 does, it would be helpful to figure out an alternative.
14:20:28 <joanie> #action Joanie will file a bug for Mike regarding the AtspiCollection issue.
14:20:31 <joanie> done
14:21:55 <jjmarin> sounds super awesome !!! ;-)
14:22:05 <joanie> jjmarin: the crashing ain't
14:22:08 <joanie> nor is the hang
14:22:09 <joanie> ;)
14:22:41 <jjmarin> expect that part maybe ;-)
14:23:16 <API> joanie, thanks for the detailed infos
14:23:18 <API> so as usual in the meetings
14:23:20 <mgorse> I've put looking at the mozilla bug onto my to-do list
14:23:20 <API> comments, discussion, doubts?
14:23:22 <joanie> mgorse: you rock!!
14:24:22 <mgorse> That deadline crept up on me. Sorry. I need to test these "click" patches that I have
14:24:57 <API> mgorse, fwiw, is API/ABI break
14:25:03 <API> only affects if you plan to add new API
14:25:16 <mgorse> yeah
14:25:20 <jjmarin> mgorse on the attack !!! ;-)
14:25:28 <mgorse> Was there much discussion about Wayland at GUADEC?
14:26:06 <API> mgorse, not a lot
14:26:22 <API> and unfourtunately I was leaving before it ended
14:26:34 <mgorse> ok
14:26:37 <API> the interesting talk about that, from Florian
14:26:43 <API> was when I was already out
14:26:45 <API> sorry
14:26:48 <API> I mean from Jasper
14:26:54 <API> funny enough
14:27:01 <API> looking at the tweets
14:27:09 <API> he seems that as part of the presentation
14:27:23 <API> made a demo of why X was bad, and it was a keylogger
14:27:36 <API> in any case, on our Team report
14:27:43 <API> we pointed Wayland as the big future challenge
14:28:27 <jjmarin> there is a news report about in LWN https://lwn.net/Articles/607091/
14:29:10 <API> interesting
14:29:12 <API> thanks for sharing
14:29:21 <API> having said so
14:29:26 <API> anything else in this topic?
14:29:36 <jjmarin> it also covers Žan Doberše talk about Wayland on WebKit
14:29:46 <jjmarin> :-
14:29:51 <jjmarin> )
14:30:14 <API> well, yes, but we were somewhat more worried about wayland on GNOME, as a whole
14:30:18 <API> well, were and are too
14:30:36 <API> so as nobody is raising hands
14:30:38 <API> #topic Marketing
14:30:40 <API> jjmarin, ?
14:30:59 <jjmarin> #info The debate about GNOME as default DE in Debian has been reactivated, with messages in debian-devel and debian-accessibility lists (sort of shared thread) https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/08/msg00163.html . Maybe our fearless leader can considerate if it is a good idea to report about gnome a11y.
14:31:12 <jjmarin> :-)
14:31:31 <jjmarin> #info AFAIK, Jessie will based in GNOME 3.12  https://www.0d.be/debian/debian-gnome-3.12-status.html
14:32:08 <jjmarin> #info If we plan to release a good enough a11y support for PDF documente in Evince, we can hightlight it in the GNOME 3.14 video https://wiki.gnome.org/BastianIls%C3%B8/ReleaseVideoG3.14
14:32:33 <jjmarin> What do you think ?
14:32:39 <API> jjmarin, hightlight how?
14:33:08 <API> mentioning improved a11y?
14:33:15 <API> I mean
14:33:20 <API> as a narrative or as a demo?
14:33:45 <jjmarin> In GNOME 3.12 there was a promotional relase video
14:34:51 <API> jjmarin, ok, I will take a look to that video later
14:34:54 <API> as a reference
14:35:09 <API> in any case, right now my preference is "narrative", just in case it have it
14:35:18 <API> about jumping to debian thread
14:35:30 <API> right now is somewhat a flame, and a11y is just a small part of it
14:35:48 <API> will consider to jump in later if makes sense
14:35:54 <jjmarin> ok
14:35:57 <API> for now im in whatching mode
14:36:09 <API> *watching
14:36:32 <jjmarin> the GNOME 3.12 video is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n77cwRJUrLg
14:37:02 <jjmarin> the idea is add some a11y feature for the gnome 3.14 video
14:37:17 <API> ok
14:37:18 <API> thanks
14:37:26 <API> so, questions, doubts, comments?
14:38:57 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
14:39:13 <API> something else to add to the meeting?
14:40:14 <jjmarin> nope
14:40:30 <jjmarin> joanie: happy hacking in Toronto ;-)
14:40:35 <joanie> thanks!
14:40:56 <API> thanks everybody for coming
14:40:58 <API> #endmeeting