14:06:39 <API> #startmeeting
14:06:39 <Services> Meeting started Thu May  8 14:06:39 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:06:39 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:06:56 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.14
14:07:22 <API> #topic Finally java-atk-wrapper compiles without errors
14:07:32 <mgorse> yay
14:07:49 <joanie> whether it does anything useful, however....
14:07:49 <jhernandez> joanie: no fires :)
14:07:50 <API> #topic I also added myself as a maintainer, in order to have a valid contact (just in case)
14:07:51 <joanie> (sorry)
14:07:57 <API> argh
14:08:05 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.14
14:08:10 <joanie> topics, topics everywhere!
14:08:11 <API> #info I also added myself as a maintainer, in order to have a valid contact (just in case)
14:08:30 <API> #info and in order to have someone reviewing patches and doing a release if needed
14:08:51 <API> #info next thing to check: if it really works
14:09:04 <API> #info Deprecations:
14:09:15 <API> #info recently I had a small talk with mclasen about deprecations
14:09:37 <API> #info I mentioned that it is still too soon to start to move to the new AtkValue, as it is pending to do the equivalent on at-spi2
14:09:51 <API> #action API will work on getting the new AtkValue API on at-spi
14:10:15 <API> #info I also mentioned on mclasen that during this cycle, moving to the more simplified focus
14:10:35 <API> #info and to the more simplified get_string API will be enough deprecations to work with
14:10:58 <API> #info he also mentioned that pango is not going anywhere, so implementing common support there still makes sense
14:11:03 <API> #info but mclasen will not work on that
14:11:14 <API> just if someone doesn't understand the last part
14:11:15 <API> right now
14:11:22 <API> for some of the get_text methods
14:11:32 <API> there are some pango-based code on gtk+
14:11:42 <API> and a C&P of the very same code at clutter
14:11:54 <joanie> a variant in evince
14:11:56 <API> so the idea would be having something common on pango itself
14:12:08 <API> yes, that true
14:12:21 <API> in any case, going on with the 3.14 progress
14:12:25 <API> #info Caching
14:12:26 <joanie> some gone now, but not the heuristic
14:12:39 <API> #info recently fregl appeared on the IRC
14:12:46 <jjmarin> what does it means pango goes nowhere ?
14:12:50 <API> #info and we had another talk about the cache
14:13:00 <API> jjmarin, a moment I will finish this and then I will answer your question
14:13:34 <API> #info so again we talked about the fact that we don't know for sure if the cache is helping or not
14:13:45 <API> #info so for this cycle it would be good to
14:14:13 <API> #info 1. review how works at-spi2 without cache (last time that I tried to not use cache I had some problems=
14:14:27 <API> #info 2. evaluate/compare cache vs non-cache
14:15:15 <API> #info 3. if it is not worthy, remove the cache. If it is worthy, try to fix some weird bugs
14:15:26 <API> probably "weird" is not the word
14:15:34 <API> probably "non-intuitive" is
14:15:51 <API> Im talking about
14:15:55 <API> that in some cases
14:16:05 <API> in order to get a properly property updated
14:16:08 <API> lets say the name
14:16:17 <API> you need to have in place a given listener
14:16:36 <API> joanie, what was the "non-intuitive" behaviour you and fregl were talking the other day?
14:16:46 <joanie> selection changes in combo boxes
14:17:00 <joanie> he emitted object:selection-changed
14:17:17 <joanie> but things didn't work until he also emitted a name-change event
14:17:32 <joanie> orca ignores name-change events from combo boxes
14:18:16 <joanie> (done)
14:18:25 <API> ok
14:18:30 <API> so about jjmarin question
14:18:39 <API> <jjmarin> what does it means pango goes nowhere ?
14:18:42 <API> some projects
14:18:44 <API> like webkitgtk
14:18:50 <API> were replacing pango for something else
14:19:01 <API> so some time ago I asked mclasen
14:19:05 <API> if gtk+ was doing the same
14:19:26 <API> because if that is the case, doing the work to add text-accessibility related code on pango was worthless
14:19:37 <API> finally he clarified that on IRC
14:19:44 <API> so
14:19:47 <API> that was my update
14:19:52 <joanie> so it's panstay not pango
14:19:54 <API> more questions, doubts, any other update?
14:20:02 <API> instanrimshot
14:20:11 <joanie> :)
14:20:20 <jjmarin> hehe
14:20:33 <jjmarin> thanks API
14:21:05 <joanie> I don't have "noteworthy" updates. I'm still keepin' on.
14:21:11 <joanie> Orca, Evince, etc.
14:21:20 <joanie> (done)
14:21:48 <API> mgorse, btw, and in relation with 3.14
14:21:58 <API> these day I have been doing some informal reviews on some at-spi2 patches
14:22:03 <API> usually the easy ones to
14:22:09 <API> reduce your load
14:22:23 <API> for example, one about improving the .gitignore file
14:22:44 <mgorse> Oh, thanks for the reminder; there's at least one patch that I need to review. Probably more
14:22:48 <API> what should I do, just mark them as reviewed or directly putting a commit-now?
14:23:03 <mgorse> putting a commit now is fine
14:23:56 <API> ok
14:24:05 <API> in any case I will do that only with the trivial,
14:24:10 <API> safe enough
14:24:32 <API> so as nobody started to jump into last time I asked for more
14:24:36 <API> I will move to next topic
14:24:38 <API> #topic
14:24:41 <API> #topic W3C updates
14:24:46 <API> joseph is not here
14:24:49 <API> joanie, ¿
14:24:51 <joanie> sure
14:24:57 <joanie> I have pre-typed infos
14:25:06 <joanie> which I'll do in two phases (aria and uaig)
14:25:09 <joanie> aria:
14:25:17 <joanie> #info The main topic of interest at the last ARIA concall, at least to Joanie, is providing proper support for annotations/comments, i.e. as found in documents.
14:25:20 <joanie> #info This was raised in the context of web apps, of course. However, this is an area that is in general poorly supported (e.g. in PDFs, in LibreOffice, etc.). And Joanie is interested in a solution that addresses all three -- if possible.
14:25:24 <joanie> #info Having said that, there was much discussion but no conclusions (yet). This will be a topic for a future meeting.
14:25:27 * joanie waits for questions
14:26:15 * API doesn't have questions
14:26:28 <joanie> ok, i'll paste the uaig
14:26:30 <joanie> then wait for more
14:26:37 <joanie> #info Regarding the User Agent Implementation Guide, we are planning on doing a "heart beat" draft. Which boils down to updating the guide content with current stuff, or an unstable release as best as Joanie can tell. :)
14:26:41 <joanie> #info What is of interest to us here is that the comments we submitted for the mapping of roles are expected to be included.
14:26:44 <joanie> (done)
14:27:32 <jjmarin> wow, an annotation fix for all the annotation problems :-)
14:27:40 <joanie> heh
14:27:46 <joanie> not necessarily, but
14:27:56 <joanie> as I keep ranting^Wsaying:
14:28:10 <joanie> Orca should not have to care that an annotation/comment is ARIA or not
14:28:15 <joanie> things ideally will just work
14:28:27 <joanie> but that means we need an aligned and documented solution
14:28:52 <joanie> if good stuff comes out of the w3c discussions (which I hope will be the case)
14:29:03 <joanie> we can then make API changes for our platform
14:29:10 <joanie> and then ask LibreOffice to do the same
14:29:20 <joanie> and do it ourselves in Evince
14:29:58 <jjmarin> ok, it is about how the annotation is presented to Orca, not about how annotation are managed "inside" of web, PDF, etc
14:30:06 <joanie> right
14:30:13 <joanie> accessibility support for the beasts
14:30:20 <jjmarin> :)
14:30:20 <joanie> to know one is present
14:30:24 <joanie> navigate to it
14:30:30 <joanie> navigate back to the content
14:30:33 <joanie> etc. etc. etc.
14:31:22 <joanie> and this isn't *just* orca btw
14:31:30 <joanie> it's for all platforms and all screen readers
14:31:51 <jjmarin> hmm, ok
14:31:54 <joanie> (and it's a non-trivial problem)
14:32:16 <joanie> other questions?
14:32:29 <jjmarin> nope
14:32:29 * API doesn't have questions
14:32:45 <joanie> ok then I'm done
14:32:47 <joanie> next topic
14:32:48 <joanie> :)
14:33:46 <API> #topic Marketing
14:33:48 <API> jjmarin, ?
14:33:59 <jjmarin> #info Not too much marketing activity this week. The report for the annual report has been reviewed
14:34:14 <jjmarin> #info I'm thinking about translating the updated English entries in the Wikipedia into Spanish for the Spanish Wikipedia :)
14:34:27 <jjmarin> done !
14:34:33 <jjmarin> question or suggestions ?
14:34:54 <joanie> no questions from me
14:35:09 <API> nope
14:35:22 <API> thanks for the annual report work, btw
14:35:39 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
14:35:49 <API> someone has something not scheduled to add to the meeting
14:35:56 <API> and today we have more time that other days
14:36:20 <jjmarin> I think I'll miss next meeting because quite probably I'll be giving a talk about GNOME
14:36:25 <joanie> I'm curious if anyone has a working jhbuild environment
14:36:33 * joanie waits for jjmarin
14:36:54 <jjmarin> Right now I don't have a working jhbuild
14:37:09 <jjmarin> done !
14:37:14 <jjmarin> :-)
14:37:15 <joanie> what talk?
14:38:15 <joanie> it's a mystery I guess ;)
14:38:18 <jjmarin> in a Software libre competition for university students
14:38:25 <jhernandez> joanie: re jhbuild, me neither, received a new laptop a few days ago and still moving data from the one into another, installing stuff, etc
14:38:26 <jjmarin> http://www.concursosoftwarelibre.org/1314/
14:38:36 * joanie looks
14:39:05 <mgorse> I sorta have a jhbuild environment for 3.12. Haven't ran it for 3.13 so far
14:39:12 <joanie> cool jjmarin
14:39:29 <joanie> as for jhbuild and 3.13
14:39:40 <jhernandez> joanie: btw, noticed that leiva is on that photo
14:39:42 <jhernandez> xD
14:39:57 <joanie> heh, he is
14:40:02 <joanie> as for jhbuild and 3.13
14:40:09 <jjmarin> aleiva is in the commitee
14:40:15 <joanie> I am seeing something bad in 3.13
14:40:19 <joanie> but it's rawhide
14:40:23 <joanie> and not jhbuild
14:40:27 <joanie> and unstable is unstable
14:40:44 <jjmarin> what's the problem joanie ?
14:40:53 <joanie> having said that, keyboard shortcuts -- and in fact the ability to minimize and maximize windows via the keyboard
14:40:58 <joanie> seems completely gone
14:41:14 <joanie> Alt+Space followed by X to maximize, for example
14:41:15 <joanie> gone
14:41:29 <joanie> there's other weird bugs so I don't know yet if this is by design
14:41:29 <joanie> bug
14:41:32 <joanie> or accident
14:42:01 <joanie> and not being able to get a fully working 3.12 environment jhbuilt is making development harder in general
14:42:12 <joanie> since Fedora 21 isn't coming out for months
14:42:29 <joanie> mgorse: is SUSE going to have a stable 3.12-based release?
14:44:46 <jjmarin> I guess you can use opensuse tumbleweed or rhughes copr for fedora
14:44:57 <mgorse> joanie: I'm not sure actually. I assume there will be a 3.12 repo for 13.1
14:45:13 <joanie> copr?
14:45:15 <mgorse> iirc 13.2 is coming out in January, so it might skip to 3.14
14:45:21 <mgorse> SLED 12 is going to be based on 3.10
14:45:25 <jjmarin> http://worldofgnome.org/get-gnome-3-12-in-fedora-20-from-copr/
14:45:40 <joanie> oh that might be promising
14:45:42 * joanie looks
14:46:07 <jjmarin> http://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/rhughes/f20-gnome-3-12/
14:46:19 <joanie> yay!
14:46:33 <joanie> I'm trying one more time to build the 3.12 (rather than master) moduleset
14:46:41 <joanie> and if that fails, that might be the way to go
14:46:44 <joanie> thanks jjmarin!!
14:46:49 <jjmarin> np
14:47:19 <joanie> there's other weird window issues too btw, like with libreoffice
14:47:29 <joanie> i.e. I am afraid about 3.13 and a11y
14:47:34 <joanie> independent of wayland
14:47:47 <joanie> but it is of course very early in the cycle
14:47:57 <jjmarin> http://opensuseadventures.blogspot.com.es/2014/05/gnome-312-arrives-to-opensuse.html
14:48:10 <joanie> more yay
14:49:36 <API> soo
14:49:48 <API> after this research of distros with gnome-3-12
14:49:50 <API> anything else?
14:49:53 <API> closing the meeting?
14:50:01 <jjmarin> ok for me
14:50:46 <jjmarin> joanie: just to note that arch linux also has gnome 3.12 :-)
14:51:06 <joanie> jjmarin: yeah, but it's a bitch to install and configure
14:51:32 <joanie> only distro that requires reading and following directions to install
14:51:33 <joanie> ;)
14:51:37 <jjmarin> ok, I never tried :-)
14:51:43 <joanie> it hurts
14:52:13 <API> #endmeeting