14:05:40 <API> #startmeeting
14:05:40 <Services> Meeting started Thu Apr 24 14:05:40 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:05:40 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:05:52 <API> #topic Issues related to 3.12
14:06:06 <API> #info 3.12 cycle is over and 3.14 is starting
14:06:26 <API> #info first release for the cycle will be
14:06:37 <API> #info on April 28th
14:06:54 <API> #info full info here: https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointThirteen
14:07:04 <API> #info note that is still have draft banners so could change
14:07:10 <API> and done
14:07:25 <API> so probably this is the last time we include this topic on the meeting
14:07:30 <API> questions, comments, moving?
14:08:15 <clown> do you know if they are doing the UI for tinting?
14:08:25 <clown> It is listed as one of the features.
14:08:27 <API> hmm
14:08:31 <API> well, for 3.12?
14:08:31 <API> no
14:08:48 <clown> https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointThirteen/Features
14:08:51 <API> for 3.14 would depend on the people I guess
14:09:22 <API> well, that was the usual, "move not done features this closed cycle to next cycle"
14:09:34 <clown> Last I had anything to do with it, Allan had a proposal for the UI, I didn't see anything particularly awkward about it, but it was just a png.
14:09:52 <API> so as it was not awkward
14:09:54 <clown> "need a programmer".
14:09:57 <API> it didn't include the
14:10:03 <API> previously proposed
14:10:11 <clown> I guess I should touch base with him.
14:10:13 <API> merge of options right?
14:10:53 <clown> actually, it did also rearrange the entire magnifier prefs UI (the zoom options control panel).
14:11:09 <clown> everything is still there, but in differnt places.
14:11:19 <clown> *different
14:11:50 <clown> oh, yes, it also had a checkbox for focus/caret tracking.  Which is being debated.
14:12:06 <API> ?
14:12:11 <API> so instead of
14:12:16 <API> enabling one or the other
14:12:21 <API> you get enabled both?
14:12:27 <API> so both or nothing?
14:12:58 <clown> yes, you get both focus and caret tracking enabled AND it they have the same mode as the current mouse tracking (centered, proportional, push).
14:13:21 <clown> henc,e the emails on the a11y list asking if that is what mag users want.
14:13:36 <API> so the merged options are still there
14:13:37 <clown> BUT, that is NOT one of the features lists on the 3.14 features page.
14:13:45 <clown> *listed
14:13:54 <API> well, mclasen send a email about that
14:13:56 <API> to d-d-l
14:14:05 <API> basically nobody proposed new features as it is
14:14:13 <clown> I see.  Link?
14:14:18 <clown> (when you have a moment).
14:14:18 * API searching
14:15:16 <API> https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2014-April/msg00083.html
14:16:01 <API> so in any case, in order to move
14:16:11 <API> #info Tinting was moved again to 3.14 features list
14:16:27 <API> #info btw, 3.14 cycle didn't have feature proposals
14:16:32 <API> #info https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2014-April/msg00083.html
14:16:39 <API> #info so it will be likely extended
14:17:04 <API> #info allan day made a design for tinting and the magnifier settings rearrange
14:17:36 <API> #info it would be needed to ping him, and mention what people said on the thread at gnome-accessibility-devel
14:17:43 <API> so, anything else?
14:18:11 <clown> #info allan day's mockup:  https://raw.github.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mockups/master/system-settings/universal-access/zoom-and-filters.png
14:18:34 <clown> done.
14:18:58 <API> ok, so moving?
14:19:37 <API> I will take the silence as a yes
14:19:46 <API> #info 3.14
14:19:59 <API> #info not news from the wayland side
14:20:11 <API> #info API is still focused on pdf stuff
14:20:12 <API> done
14:21:19 <joanie> #info Joanie is still focused on pdf stuff as well
14:21:37 <joanie> (playing guess where the replaced object char should go)
14:21:43 <joanie> (which is not a fun game)
14:21:51 <joanie> (this is for non-tagged pdfs)
14:22:03 <joanie> done
14:23:25 <mgorse> I've subscribed myself to wayland-devel and read a couple of the security-related blog posts, but don't really have anything else to add
14:23:26 <API> someone else want to say something on this topic?
14:23:32 <API> ok
14:23:37 <mgorse> looks like all of the discussion happened on desktop-devel, so I need to go read through that
14:24:04 <API> well, the relevant discussion included desktop-devel
14:24:09 <API> but was sent to wayland-devel too
14:24:26 <mgorse> okay, guess I missed it somehow. Thought I only saw one message in the archive
14:25:18 <API> well, I can be wrong
14:25:21 <API> in any case
14:25:24 <API> moving to next topic?
14:26:16 <API> #topic W3C updates
14:26:20 <API> clown, ?
14:26:37 <clown> I can think of only one thing...
14:27:11 <clown> #info The discussion around a new role of "label" and a new attribute "aria-labelfor" is closer to a resolution.
14:27:37 <clown> #info The working group is okay with the label role.
14:28:03 <clown> #info but there is some resistance against adding aria-labelfor.  The feeling is that the current aria-labelledby is sufficient.
14:28:29 <clown> #info although there are still some members in favour of both.  We are waiting on them to argue their case.
14:28:41 <clown> done, questions?  Anything to add joanie?
14:28:48 <joanie> nothing to add
14:29:17 <API> well, as you mention that
14:29:28 <API> in ATK we have both
14:29:41 <API> but I was never sure if both are needed
14:29:50 <API> joanie, in  orca you use both or just labelledby?
14:30:05 <joanie> a combination
14:30:22 <joanie> we use label-for to determine if a GtkLabel is static text
14:30:24 <clown> API, you are talking about the RELATION_FOR/_BY?
14:30:35 <joanie> actually I think the same for clutter
14:30:46 <API> clown, yes, I assume that is the equivalent concept
14:30:52 <clown> not quite.
14:30:55 <API> joanie, ok thanks
14:31:09 <API> clown, not quite?
14:31:10 <joanie> because to me, the problem is that we don't have a great role for static text
14:31:13 <API> could you elaborate?
14:31:37 <clown> Right now, with aria-labelledby, FF will automatcially compute the REL_FOR/REL_BY for the author and stick in ATK (and IA2).
14:32:11 <clown> So, the author needs to specify only one direction currently.  Which is less error prone, and easier to maintain.
14:32:25 <API> oh well, but what I mean
14:32:31 <API> *meant
14:32:36 <API> is that the concepts were the same
14:32:41 <API> or at least similar
14:32:59 <API> and in any case
14:33:02 <clown> yes, okay.
14:33:05 <API> that is true for firefox
14:33:16 <API> but other implementors still need to add the relationship
14:33:32 <API> that "just one relation is less error prone"
14:33:38 <API> could be also applied to ATK
14:33:43 <API> that the reason I was guessing
14:33:54 <API> anyway, probably that is not material for this meeting
14:34:01 <API> thanks for the update
14:34:07 <clown> no problem.
14:34:09 <API> more questions about clown update?
14:34:52 <API> *clown's
14:35:15 <API> #topic Marketing
14:35:22 <API> hmm jjmarin is not here
14:35:42 <API> so unless someone steps forward quickly I will skip this topic
14:36:46 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
14:36:56 <API> something not scheduled to add?
14:37:08 <API> this time doesn't have to be short, as the meeting was light
14:37:11 <clown> quick meeting.
14:37:26 <joanie> I could rant more about non-tagged pdfs
14:37:29 <joanie> (or not)
14:37:30 <joanie> ;)
14:38:57 <clown> *crickets*
14:39:43 <API> *frogs*
14:39:45 <API> well
14:39:48 <API> lets close the meeting
14:39:50 <API> #endmeeting