14:07:05 <API> #startmeeting
14:07:05 <Services> Meeting started Thu Apr  3 14:07:05 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:07:05 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
14:07:06 <API> yes
14:07:11 <API> #topic Issues related to 3.12
14:07:13 <API> joanie, ?
14:07:18 <joanie> Not sure
14:07:26 <joanie> it was a call for did-we-break-stuff?
14:07:38 <joanie> there are a few gnome-shell bugs I filed
14:07:43 <joanie> like the suspend thing
14:08:02 <joanie> but beyond that I don't have any oh-noes for this topic
14:08:44 <joanie> <crickets>
14:08:53 <joanie> guess that means it's all good and we can move on?
14:09:02 <mgorse> There's bug 684076
14:09:02 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684076 normal, Normal, ---, gtk-bugs, UNCONFIRMED, clean up a11y on shutdown
14:09:09 <joanie> oh yeah
14:09:17 <mgorse> which I should try to find a way to fix
14:09:56 <mgorse> I should probably info that
14:10:09 * joanie nods
14:10:26 <mgorse> #info mgorse has reopened bug 684076, since old socket directories no longer get cleaned up
14:10:56 <joanie> (I'll info the ones I filed when he's done)
14:11:00 <mgorse> that's all I know about in terms of AT-SPI, other than the bug that we talked about at the last meeting
14:11:06 <mgorse> done
14:11:25 <joanie> #info Bug 727258 - Accessible object:property-change:accessible-name event not emitted for power-off/suspend
14:11:26 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727258 normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Accessible object:property-change:accessible-name event not emitted for power-off/suspend
14:11:54 <joanie> #info Bug 727272 - Accessible object:state-changed:focused events missing when arrowing in the icon view
14:11:55 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727272 normal, Normal, ---, nautilus-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Accessible object:state-changed:focused events missing when arrowing in the icon view
14:12:15 <joanie> those are the two of interest
14:12:22 <joanie> the others I filed are not new
14:12:24 <joanie> and less concerning
14:12:30 <joanie> (done)
14:12:43 * clown didn't know that changing the acc name cause an event.  learn something every day.
14:12:52 <joanie> it does more than that
14:13:09 <joanie> the event causes the at-spi2 (or pyatspi) cache to be updated
14:13:21 <joanie> otherwise Orca doesn't know the object has a different name
14:13:33 <clown> good to know.
14:13:37 <joanie> i.e. when it asks for the name
14:13:42 * clown wonders if other platforms do that (such as IA2).
14:13:42 <joanie> it's not that Orca itself cached it
14:14:25 <joanie> anyhoo, that's all i've got
14:16:09 <API> so, moving?
14:16:16 * joanie nods
14:16:44 <API> #topic Plans for 3.14  - Wayland
14:16:55 <API> joanie, as they are subtopics
14:17:04 <API> but afaik, meetbot doesn't support them
14:17:08 <API> I will do this kind of topics
14:17:08 <joanie> yeah
14:17:10 <joanie> sure
14:17:41 <API> in any case
14:17:45 <API> I will start with background
14:18:03 <API> #info From 3.12 Wayland is still in beta
14:18:22 <API> (although I guess that if for 3.12 is beta, 3.10 should be considered alpha, in any case)
14:18:52 <API> #info Jasper wrote a summary of the new stuff for 3.12 and plans for the future on a blog post
14:19:14 <API> #info http://blog.mecheye.net/2014/03/wayland-in-3-12-and-beyond/
14:19:31 <API> #info additionally, a thread started on wayland-dev, moved to desktop-devel
14:19:57 <API> #info it was related to security, specifically about still-not-supported features due security reasons
14:20:17 <API> #info API sent a email in order to include accessibility as another of those features
14:20:44 * joanie says "features" with finger quotes
14:20:45 <API> #info in short, if all those features gets in wayland (with or without a custom security protocol), accessibility would need to follow them
14:21:12 <API> #info as it seems that just dbus would not be enough (afair, mgorse already concluded that)
14:21:18 <API> done
14:21:27 <API> so questions, comments, doubts?
14:21:48 <mgorse> right. I really need to read through all of those messages on that thread
14:21:58 <joanie> general worries, like I usually have everytime we undergo this sort of thing
14:22:20 <joanie> I do have a question though
14:22:47 <joanie> We identified a number of things we need access to somehow, which depends on how we solve the security stuff (I assume)
14:23:00 <joanie> but they are not themselves part of the security solution (Right?)
14:23:07 <joanie> so what is the plan for them?
14:23:25 <joanie> https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility/Wayland
14:23:43 <API> well, we would need to implement them as wayland extensions
14:23:55 <API> as the virtual keyboard guys did with their stuff
14:24:02 <API> probably using that as base
14:24:09 <joanie> ok, who does that?
14:24:49 <API> and mention that "this is the functionality we  need, now we need to get them comply the security protocol or whatever you created"
14:25:17 <API> <joanie> ok, who does that?
14:25:31 <API> Im tempted to say, "myself", but as usually
14:25:43 <joanie> you cannot do everything
14:25:45 <API> me being able to do it or not, would be complex
14:25:56 <API> complex==I cannot do everything
14:25:56 <joanie> so let's take a particular issue
14:26:04 <joanie> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710012
14:26:05 <Services> 04Bug 710012: normal, Normal, ---, at-spi-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Wayland: Accessible mouse-moved events are not emitted
14:26:15 <joanie> We have several a11y clients that need this
14:26:35 <joanie> Orca and I think mousetweaks maybe?
14:26:40 <jjmarin> security as an aftertought is is better than a11y as an afterthought, though it sounds like a not very good practice
14:26:49 <joanie> My proposal is that it come from at-spi2
14:27:10 * clown applauds jjmarin
14:27:13 <joanie> so does mgorse develop this solution? does a wayland dev develop something
14:27:14 <joanie> ?
14:27:40 <API> so your proposal is asking to some wayland developer to do that work?
14:28:06 <joanie> no my *question* is: How do we move forward on bug 710012?
14:28:07 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=710012 normal, Normal, ---, at-spi-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Wayland: Accessible mouse-moved events are not emitted
14:28:14 <joanie> (it's not the only one)
14:28:26 <joanie> (but it's a concrete task that someone somewhere needs to do for 3.14)
14:28:31 <joanie> s/for/in time for/
14:28:35 <clown> bz 710012 is classified as a "at-spi" product.  Do wayland developers pay attention to that product's bugs?
14:28:48 <API> clown, no, thats the reason we sent emails to wayland-dev
14:28:51 <joanie> clown: that is one of the implications
14:28:57 <joanie> we have concrete tasks
14:28:58 <API> some people suggest stuff
14:29:05 <API> but nobody volunteer to do that part
14:29:05 <joanie> that as far as I can tell, no one is addressing
14:29:13 <joanie> it's not clear to me who is supposed to be addressing it
14:29:16 <API> s/volunteer/volunteered
14:29:31 <clown> i suspect it will require input from both that at-spi team and the wayland team since the two products need to interface here.
14:29:31 <joanie> and if I don't know and no one else knows, guess what we will NOT have in time for 3.14
14:29:35 <API> to solve that, you need to add something on wayland
14:29:43 <API> as far as we see, from the small research we did
14:29:49 <API> that includes doing a wayland extension
14:30:13 <API> that virtual keyboard related extension, had some methods to input key events
14:30:32 <API> so it would be adding the extension (and implementing it) for injenting mouse events
14:30:45 <API> about who
14:30:51 <API> nobody from wayland-dev list
14:30:55 <API> even now
14:31:03 <API> volunteered to solve that issue
14:31:14 <API> that's the reason I assumed that if we were interested on solve it
14:31:15 <joanie> who did the virtual keyboard extension?
14:31:21 <API> we were the ones that needed to solve that
14:31:36 <API> <joanie> who did the virtual keyboard extension?
14:31:39 <API> maalit developers
14:31:44 <API> maalit is a virtual keyboard
14:31:53 <API> they made some work in order to get maalit working on wayland
14:32:05 <API> sorry
14:32:09 <API> s/maalit/maliit
14:32:18 <mgorse> That should be a good model at least
14:32:37 * joanie nods
14:32:56 <API> yes, I already mentioned before, that we could take those as reference
14:33:02 <API> and then again ping the list
14:33:11 <API> "we have this, so how we solve now the security stuff"
14:33:13 <joanie> mgorse: feel free not to answer this, but does your employer give you DayJob time to address stuff like this?
14:33:17 <API> the good thing about the security stuff
14:33:30 <API> is that affects several other features
14:33:43 <API> so I assume (and hope) that there will be more people interested on solve it
14:33:46 <API> so in work on it
14:33:48 * joanie suggests that a11y is not a "feature" (finger quotes)
14:33:50 <API> and fwiw
14:33:55 <API> about maliit and wayland:
14:33:57 <API> https://wiki.maliit.org/Wayland_Input_Method_System_Proposal
14:34:31 <mgorse> I'd need to ask. SLED 12 is going to be GNOME 3.10-based
14:34:40 <clown> "This Connection is Untrusted"  ?
14:34:51 <clown> for maliit.org.
14:34:55 <joanie> mgorse: if you could make an inquiry
14:35:11 <API> clown, it works for me
14:35:20 <joanie> whatever your management says is fine and we appreciate all the work you do -- and that they give you dayjob time to do :)
14:35:28 <joanie> we just need to plan one way or the other
14:35:38 <joanie> and figure out what available resources we have
14:35:47 <mgorse> but the Wayland devs could just say, "send us a patch," so I or someone here should plan on doing it, to make sure it gets done
14:36:00 <joanie> mgorse: exactly
14:36:10 <joanie> because I'm betting on the fact that in the end we have to provide it
14:36:22 <joanie> so I need to see which of "us" are able (skill-wize and time-wize)
14:36:36 <joanie> and we need to be honest. not able is fine.
14:36:42 <joanie> we just need to figure it out
14:36:44 <joanie> ya know?
14:36:59 <joanie> s/I need/we need/
14:37:28 <joanie> at least in this specific case, mouse review is not core/critical Orca
14:37:37 <joanie> some other stuff will be however
14:37:41 <API> well, just to not use too much time on this point, can I summarize it with #info's and move to next topic?
14:37:56 * clown nods
14:38:02 * joanie nods
14:38:08 <API> #info For plans for 3.14
14:38:10 * joanie apologizes for the ranty deep dive
14:38:14 * jjmarin nods as well
14:38:18 <joanie> :)
14:38:32 <API> #info API mentions that the more straightforward plan would be implement all the required functionality as a wayland extension
14:38:48 <API> #info previous work done on virtual keyboards could be a good reference
14:38:48 * clown lots of neck exercise
14:38:54 <API> #info https://wiki.maliit.org/Wayland_Input_Method_System_Proposal
14:39:44 <API> #info API hopes that as the security affects other basic functionality and common features, that would be solved
14:40:04 <API> #info main concern on the team would be who would work on implementing that extension
14:40:50 <API> #info joanie asked if this could be done as part of mgorse dayjob. mgorse will check it
14:41:00 <API> #info a11y team will oversee all this on the following weeks
14:41:07 <API> anythint else or moving?
14:42:35 <API> #topic Plans for 3.14  - Feature proposals
14:42:51 <API> #info ATK made several deprecations for 3.10 and 3.12
14:43:38 <API> #info in addition to the new APIs that replace them
14:43:43 <API> #info API main interest would be about start to port toolkits and apps to the new APIs
14:44:01 <API> #info that and Wayland would be a really big chunk of stuff to do
14:44:34 <API> #info another possible features would be homogenize keyboard focus management and pdf accessibility
14:44:36 * joanie reminds API about the "keyboard nav consistency" "feature" that came up for 3.12 but didn't happen
14:44:39 <joanie> heh
14:44:41 <joanie> nevermind
14:44:41 <API> done
14:44:51 <clown> #info Matthias copied the magnifier tint enhancement over from 3.10 — https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointThirteen/Features/TintEnhancement
14:45:13 <clown> #info Focus TRuacking UI wasn't copied over.
14:45:21 <clown> s/TRuacking/Tracking/
14:45:29 <clown> done
14:47:06 * clown *crickets*
14:47:23 <jjmarin> I guess It doesn't mean he want to implement it :-)
14:47:31 <jjmarin> s/want/wants
14:47:36 <API> jjmarin, well, my guess is that if it was added
14:47:42 <API> is because someone has the interest then ;)
14:47:44 <API> that is true
14:47:48 <API> as usual, time is the problem
14:47:52 <API> as pink floyd said
14:47:59 <API> in any case, and in relation with the crickets
14:48:05 <API> anything else here?
14:48:23 <jjmarin> Nice features to have in 3.14: sticky keys #669597 and mouse pointers sizes #665907 , but keeping the features we have in Wayland is more important
14:48:49 <joanie> yeah, number one goal is trying not to regress
14:48:57 <API> oh well, I forgot that we have the "other stuff"
14:48:58 <API> so
14:48:59 <joanie> we failed badly on that front when 3.0 came out :(
14:49:05 <joanie> I'd really hate a repeat for 3.14
14:49:13 <API> #topic Plans for 3.14  - other stuff
14:49:23 <API> as jjmarin said
14:49:24 * joanie raises a timid hand :)
14:49:33 <API> #info sticky keys #669597
14:49:40 <API> #info mouse pointers sizes #665907
14:49:46 <joanie> bug 669597
14:49:46 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=669597 normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, UNCONFIRMED, Sticky keys description rather misleading
14:49:48 <API> joanie, your timid hand's turn
14:49:56 <joanie> bug 665907
14:49:56 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=665907 normal, Normal, ---, control-center-maint, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Add mouse pointer options like size and theme
14:50:00 <joanie> ok
14:50:06 * joanie puts hand down
14:50:08 <joanie> gestures
14:50:10 <joanie> aaaaaah!
14:50:33 <joanie> #info Matthias sent an email to the gtk-devel-list about gestures: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2014-April/msg00000.html
14:50:49 * clown rude ones?
14:51:09 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks (hopes) that the result of gestures will be accessible events just as if some other input mode were used. Thus that should (hopefully) not be a problem.
14:51:39 <joanie> #info Matthias did ask a question at the end, however: "Do we envision applications to have custom gestures ? Any plausible"
14:51:42 <joanie> examples for that ? If yes, it would be good to have an example for a
14:51:42 <joanie> "
14:51:45 <joanie> custom gesture implementation. If not, we can probably save quite a
14:51:45 <joanie> fail
14:51:48 <joanie> bit of API that is only relevant for subclassing.
14:52:01 <joanie> fail == formatting, pasting, infoing
14:52:07 <joanie> anyhoo, the main bit is there
14:52:22 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks we might have a desire/example for custom gestures.
14:52:43 <joanie> #info iOS's VoiceOver has custom accessibility gestures
14:53:02 <joanie> #info Joanie worked on a DayJob project where there were screen-reader-specific gestures
14:53:26 <joanie> #info It might be cool for there to be Orca gestures for things like WhereAmI or FlatReview.
14:53:45 <joanie> #info So Joanie supposes she should answer that email. :)
14:54:19 <joanie> #info Joanie is not looking forward to entering into some debate with Gtk+ devs about whether or not this is needed, however. Hopefully this will not happen.
14:54:37 <joanie> #info But before Joanie does this, she would like to know if her idea is sane or silly.
14:54:39 <joanie> (done)
14:54:42 <joanie> comments encouraged
14:54:50 <clown> we are talking about touch screens, mostly, right?
14:54:54 <jjmarin> I think if garnacho is the responsible for the gesture implementation, we can ping him, I think he cares about adding a11y love to his creatures
14:55:39 <joanie> clown: yup
14:56:01 <API> jjmarin, well, as far as I understand what joanie is saying
14:56:03 <joanie> jjmarin: indeed. But I don't know where this would go.
14:56:14 <joanie> i.e. Maybe it's wayland?
14:56:15 <API> she is not talking about adding a11y features on gestures
14:56:25 <API> but on orca consume them
14:56:29 <joanie> no
14:56:34 <joanie> well, yes
14:56:37 <joanie> Orca consuming them
14:56:46 <joanie> that part I think will be easy
14:56:53 <joanie> because no one else wants them
14:56:55 <joanie> if they are special
14:57:10 <joanie> we'd probably just want to document them so that others don't steal them
14:57:19 <joanie> but where do these gestures go?
14:57:50 <joanie> i.e. thinking about it more, it's not a gtk thing
14:57:55 <joanie> it's a platform-wide thing
14:58:15 <API> well, yes, but someone needs to provide the API to consume it
14:58:19 <joanie> twirl three fingers in a swishyswoop and flat review starts
14:58:22 <API> I mean, that can be platform-wide
14:58:38 <API> but you would need to use something to know that they are happening
14:58:40 <clown> just a thought:  this might relate to independant UI events work.
14:58:53 <joanie> true
14:59:02 <joanie> though we cannot wait for them
14:59:12 <clown> and I wonder if IndieUI has anything for custom events.
14:59:13 <joanie> see the AtkRole discussion ;)
14:59:27 <clown> right, but they might already have done.
14:59:38 <clown> alas, I haven't been keeping track of their work.
14:59:38 <joanie> fair enough
14:59:41 <joanie> me neither
14:59:57 <joanie> but setting that aside
15:00:25 <joanie> here's my question: To whom (if anyone) do I tell about Orca potentially wanting custom gestures?
15:00:42 <joanie> do I reply on gtk-devel-list?
15:00:47 <joanie> or is this "bigger than that"?
15:01:42 <API> well, as I mentioned to you privately
15:01:47 <joanie> ugh, and we still have the possibility that Orca might want to know what the event was to see if it should ignore a subsequent event
15:01:56 <API> that I was also unsure about where is the place for each thing
15:01:59 <API> if gtk or "wider"
15:02:14 <API> I think that asking there is a good place to ask
15:02:21 <API> hmm, sorry too vague
15:02:22 <joanie> ok
15:02:26 <jjmarin> I think garnacho is the person who has been working on the touch screen problems for a long time
15:02:27 <API> what I mean is that your question makes sense
15:02:39 <API> and asking that while answering that email is a good place to do that
15:02:53 <joanie> #action Joanie will respond to Matthias's email with a brief description of her idea.
15:03:11 <API> jjmarin, for sure garnacho follows that mailing list ;)
15:03:23 <jjmarin> yup :-)
15:03:27 <joanie> We may have to adopt garnacho on this team :)
15:03:40 <jjmarin> I'm fan of garnacho :-)
15:03:56 <joanie> anyone who does a11y work on demand and per spec is totally my friend :)
15:04:13 <joanie> and he's very pleasant
15:04:51 <jjmarin> +1
15:04:53 <API> in any case
15:04:58 <API> anything else here
15:05:05 * API notes that we are already over meeting time
15:05:08 <joanie> yikes
15:05:09 <API> anything else here ?
15:05:10 <joanie> my fault
15:05:18 <joanie> and we have another meeting 5 minutes ago
15:05:19 <joanie> fail
15:05:28 <joanie> fail == I fail
15:05:30 <clown> !
15:05:59 <API> #topic W3C updates
15:06:13 <clown> I have three things that I'll try to summarize quickly.
15:06:14 <API> clown, something to add (hopefully quick)?
15:06:46 <clown> #info 1.  The specification documents are being moved to github — https://github.com/w3c/aria
15:07:06 <clown> #info Joseph is in the process of preparing the UAIG for this move, and hopes to have that finished by next week.
15:07:34 <clown> #info 2. An issue discussed this week was how to make aria references to and from the Shadow DOM.
15:07:55 <clown> #info this is a nice intro to the shadow dom and a11y issues:  http://substantial.com/blog/2014/02/05/accessibility-and-the-shadow-dom/
15:08:35 <clown> #info  3.  The specification of the proposed aria-roledesc attribute has had a lot of discussion this week.
15:08:55 <clown> #info the thread starts here:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Mar/0130.html
15:08:58 <clown> done.
15:09:21 <joanie> #info Joanie is part of the "problem" regarding aria-roledesc ;)
15:09:43 <clown> API, you were going to write something about that — feel free to contribute to that thread.
15:09:48 <joanie> #info Joanie thinks it is a step backward, rather than forward, for our platform
15:10:33 <API> yeah I read some of those emails
15:10:40 <clown> #info  Notes that at this point, aria-roledesc is confined to the group and region roles only.
15:10:41 <API> taking into account that joanmarie already pointed some of the problems
15:10:51 <joanie> and I have more to add
15:10:58 <joanie> add == reply to on that list
15:11:01 <API> I was guessing if it still makes sense my past action item about the atk experience
15:11:40 <API> opinions?
15:11:43 <API> joanie, clown ?
15:11:49 <joanie> I'm not sure
15:11:50 <API> do you think that it is still relevant
15:11:52 <joanie> the thing is....
15:11:52 <API> ?
15:12:02 <API> my concern is adding noise to an already long thread
15:12:06 <joanie> I think that much of what you would point out is bigger than what they are talking about
15:12:11 <clown> I'd say your comments are relevant, API.  You have a perspective based on history.
15:12:38 <clown> Historical results would, I think, have some weight in this discussion.
15:12:48 <joanie> clown: This isn't quite roll-your-own-role
15:12:53 <clown> right.
15:13:01 <joanie> which is what the role extensibility is about
15:13:05 <joanie> rolling your own role
15:13:16 <joanie> we deprecated rolling your own role
15:13:31 <clown> this is "for the most generic roles (group and region), allows some degree of specificity in a role description string"
15:13:37 <joanie> correct
15:13:40 <joanie> which is different
15:13:46 <joanie> and which I still have problems with ;)
15:13:55 <joanie> but it's not as bad as what it originally sounded like
15:14:04 <clown> right.
15:14:05 <joanie> which was full role extensibility
15:14:11 <API> hmm, that's is also a good point
15:14:12 <joanie> and that was API's action item
15:14:19 <joanie> so I still have a battle to fight
15:14:22 <joanie> not sure API does
15:14:26 <clown> but, you can see in some of the comments that some people think it *is* full roll extensibility.
15:14:28 <joanie> unless he wants to write it
15:14:28 <API> good point == thread is not anymore about role extension
15:14:58 <API> hmm
15:15:01 <joanie> clown: but I think the voices that are the ... most influential ? ... are not saying that
15:15:01 <API> well, as we are over time
15:15:09 <joanie> but that's just my opinion
15:15:11 <API> I think that I will watch a little more the thread
15:15:32 <API> and then add that grandpa history if I see that makes sense
15:15:38 <clown> joanie, i think you are right.  Maybe API can keep this in his back pocket when the full role extension starts up again
15:15:40 <clown> (it will).
15:16:03 <API> clown, yes, exactly that
15:16:05 * joanie notes for the record that on 3 April she was right about something. #thisdayinhistory
15:16:09 <API> and having said so
15:16:13 <joanie> :)
15:16:18 <API> if you don't mind I will close the meeting
15:16:22 <API> unless jjmarin has
15:16:29 * clown notes that his is suddenly the arbitator of "what is right".
15:16:30 <API> something really relevant to say about marketing
15:16:39 <joanie> clown: use your powers for good
15:16:41 <joanie> :)
15:17:02 <clown> :-)
15:17:03 <jjmarin> ok
15:17:18 <jjmarin> #info: Juanjo's updated the wikipedia entry for ATK. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility_Toolkit
15:17:25 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo will do the same with AT-SPI in the following days. The draft still in http://piratepad.net/5dT0fHzENH
15:17:31 <jjmarin> If something wrong in the wikipedia or in piratepad, just tell me or change it.
15:17:32 <joanie> yay jjmarin!
15:17:38 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo has added a Code section in the a11y team wiki page https://wiki.gnome.org/Accessibility/. So far only ATK and AT-SPI (DBus based)
15:17:57 <jjmarin> Does anyone against adding this section ?
15:18:01 <jjmarin> I guess I should add as well orca and accerciser,
15:18:06 <jjmarin> but not sure about other GNOME hosted projects like dasher or the old AT-SPI bonobo-based.
15:18:12 <joanie> no bonobo
15:18:19 <joanie> dasher might be worth it
15:18:23 <jjmarin> ok
15:18:32 <jjmarin> any other ?
15:18:33 <joanie> we don't want anyone to find corba stuff ever again
15:18:34 <joanie> :)
15:18:39 <joanie> mousetweaks?
15:18:44 <joanie> gnome-shell magnifier?
15:19:12 <jjmarin> a point the the .js of gnome-shell magnifier ?
15:19:23 <joanie> probably
15:19:38 <jjmarin> I mean, just to the gnome-shell repo or just to the zoom files
15:19:39 <joanie> it answers the question of "how does the magnifier do that?"
15:19:53 <joanie> the relevant code
15:19:59 <jjmarin> ok
15:20:13 <joanie> assuming it's all in one place more or less
15:20:25 <joanie> just pointing to the top of the tree for gnome-shell isn't helpful
15:20:55 <jjmarin> I think there is .js
15:20:55 <joanie> by the same token, if it's in a bunch of places, that isn't helpful either
15:21:04 <joanie> if there's one, I'd point to that
15:21:05 <joanie> :)
15:21:12 <jjmarin> that hat the main logic
15:21:17 <joanie> perfect
15:21:32 <jjmarin> I'll bring to the meeting if I can solve this :-)
15:21:34 <clown> jjmarin, if you need a screen shot for "the .js of gnome-shell magnifier", here:  https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeShell/CheatSheet#line-79
15:21:53 <clown> ;-)
15:22:31 <jjmarin> clown: jjmarin forgot to write to the list about the UI design for the zoom options, but he we'll do
15:22:44 <clown> jjmarin:  thanks1
15:22:55 * jjmarin realised Juanjo hasn't tweeted about GNOME 3.14 in gnome_a11y. Any suggestion from your wittier minds ?
15:22:56 <API> so, with that thanksthat seems to end a
15:23:00 <joanie> heh
15:23:00 <API> something
15:23:02 <clown> That will be relevant if someone moves that project to the 3.13 features page.
15:23:34 * joanie says "poor fearless leader"
15:23:39 <API> could we go to a point that let us close the meeting?
15:23:42 <joanie> chatty minions are teh suck
15:23:47 <jhernandez> xDDD
15:23:48 <joanie> close it
15:23:53 <jjmarin> ok :-)
15:23:59 <API> #endmeeting