15:06:25 <API> #startmeeting
15:06:25 <Services> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 15:06:25 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:06:25 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:06:26 <tota11y> Meeting started Thu Mar  6 16:06:25 2014 CET.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:06:26 <tota11y> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:06:38 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.12
15:07:03 <API> #info After some in-bugzilla and IRC feedback
15:07:13 <API> #info finally API closed bug 684576
15:07:13 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684576 enhancement, Normal, ---, atk-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, API Additions: atk_value_get_description() and atk_value_set_description()
15:07:14 <tota11y> 04Bug https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684576 enhancement, Normal, ---, atk-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, API Additions: atk_value_get_description() and atk_value_set_description()
15:07:15 <Services> 04Bug 684576: enhancement, Normal, ---, atk-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, API Additions: atk_value_get_description() and atk_value_set_description()
15:07:15 <tota11y> 04Bug 684576: enhancement, Normal, ---, atk-maint, RESOLVED FIXED, API Additions: atk_value_get_description() and atk_value_set_description()
15:07:53 <API> #info in summary, that means several changes on AtkValue, that would be released for 3.12, and would have time for implementors to update their implementors during next cycle
15:08:19 <API> #info unfourtunately, API finished last review on Wed, too late for 2.11.91 release
15:08:51 <API> #info so it was postponed till 2.11.92. As this includes new string API sent a emil to ask a string freeze break request
15:08:58 <API> and done
15:09:09 <API> anyone else want to comment something on this topic?
15:09:49 <jjmarin> no
15:10:36 <jjmarin> it seems that new features for GNOME 3.12 are not glamour enough for the the release notes :-)
15:10:52 <API> hmm
15:11:00 <API> yes, most of them are new interfaces and stuff
15:11:11 <API> there are also some improvements on pdf access
15:11:13 <API> hmm true
15:11:14 <API> a mon
15:11:25 <jjmarin> I mean very "under the hood" things
15:11:41 <API> #info joanie+API were working on some accessibility bugs for evince, hopefully they will be included on 3.12
15:11:58 <jjmarin> yes, I would like to know if there is new thing for PDF support, like tagged support
15:12:11 <jjmarin> great !
15:12:28 <API> well, we would need to fill that wiki
15:12:39 <API> please add a reminder while on the marketing topic ;)
15:12:48 <jjmarin> ok ;-)
15:12:54 <API> so if nobody else want to add something on this topic
15:13:01 <API> I will move
15:13:07 <jjmarin> ok
15:14:01 <jjmarin> nice to see garnacho working on the new widgets and taking care of a11y
15:14:11 <API> yep
15:14:54 <API> #topic W3C updates
15:14:57 <API> clown is not here
15:15:05 <API> but he sent a private email with his summaries
15:15:10 <API> so in behalf of him:
15:15:35 <API> #info Decision to add table role in ARIA 1.1
15:15:35 <API> #info There already is a grid role, but that is an *interactive* widget with a row/column organization.
15:15:35 <API> #info  A table is *non-interactive* document content, sometimes referred to as a "data table".
15:15:35 <API> #info Next steps are to determine what sub-roles a table has that are not already in the ARIA 1.0 spec, e.g., headers, rows, columns, cells, caption.
15:15:35 <API> #info An issue with respect to a11y APIs, is that grid is exposed as ROLE_TABLE in ARIA 1.0.  What would table be exposed as?
15:15:38 <API> #info One suggestion: ROLE_TABLE  + xml-roles:table vs. ROLE_TABLE + xml-roles:grid, where xml-roles is an object attribute (already in use -- xml-roles is not new).
15:15:42 <API> #info But, David also suggests engaging wider community for their thoughts -- AT vendors and a11y API developers.
15:15:55 * API reading before pasting another bunch of #infos
15:16:46 <API> and next bunch:
15:16:49 <API> #info Suggested new wording:  ""Element SHOULD NOT be exposed in a11y tree unless focussed.  If the object is in the accessibility tree, map all attributes as normal. In addition, expose object attribute hidden:true"
15:16:50 <API> #info Worry that the focus exception is not enough -- what if the object is selected?  Or if the object emits a live region event, or other a11y event?
15:16:50 <API> #info  Mozilla okay with  the "SHOULD NOT", but "... with a grunt"
15:17:13 <API> hmm, sorry I missed one #info
15:17:43 <API> #info previous elements were in relation to "ATK/AT-SPI mapping for aria-hidden="false""
15:20:24 <API> sorry, I was adding some comment at #a11y
15:20:36 <API> so if nobody has questions or doubts
15:20:44 <API> and I think so as nobody asked
15:20:45 <API> ;)
15:21:00 <API> I will move to next topic
15:21:15 <API> #topic Marketing
15:21:58 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo has added Alejandro's comments in the ATK text for the wikipedia and ask for another review when you have a slot of free time
15:22:31 <mgorse> Is the URL the same as the last one you sent?
15:23:28 <jjmarin> mgorse: it is another email in thread "ATK and AT/SPI entries fro the Wikipedia"
15:24:21 <jjmarin> there must be in your alum.wpi.edu account
15:26:24 <API> well, I will take a look later
15:26:29 <jjmarin> #info We need to add more info about the new features for GNOME 3.12 in the wiki  https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointEleven/ReleaseNotes#What.27s_new_in_accessibility , like the PDF support ;-)
15:26:49 <API> but as I mentioned, at some given point probably it would be better to have the text on a collaborative tool
15:26:55 <API> like a pad or a wiki
15:27:08 <jjmarin> ok, I can provide that
15:27:48 <jjmarin> #action Juanjo will move the wikipedian entries to a collaborative tool and send to the a11y team members
15:28:25 <API> thanks
15:28:26 <jjmarin> So, wait for another email with the links
15:28:45 <API> so anything else in this topic?
15:29:16 <jjmarin> BTW, I don't know too much about the current new features in https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointEleven/ReleaseNotes#What.27s_new_in_accessibility
15:29:41 <jjmarin> what is a model-based menu ?
15:29:52 * API looking
15:30:17 <API> I guess that are menus that have the info on a gtktreemodel
15:30:29 <API> in any case that seems really developer-low-level to me
15:30:39 <API> probably it will be filtered out on the release notes
15:30:52 <API> oh, it has a "new for developers" title
15:31:03 <API> I was thinking on just "user release notes"
15:31:14 <API> in any case I agree that it doesn't explain too much
15:31:37 <API> in any case (2), moving to next topic?
15:31:55 <jjmarin> yes, we can add there, or just a line somewhere in the notes
15:32:17 <jjmarin> I am curious to know how a GtkColorChooser has better a11y
15:32:34 <jjmarin> I mean, how colors are accessible
15:32:58 <API> well, mclasen asked some stuff about the ranges
15:33:16 <API> the thing is that before, afaik
15:33:34 <API> your only option to check a color or set a color was visually
15:33:53 <API> I think that they improved they keyboard navigation and how stuff is exposed
15:33:59 <API> but I didn't test it
15:34:37 <jjmarin> ok, I will try to find the bug report or try myself
15:34:51 <API> ok
15:34:56 <API> so moving then
15:35:03 <jjmarin> ok
15:35:03 <API> #topic Miscellaneous time
15:35:13 <API> I have one, also forwarding from Joseph
15:35:33 <API> I was tempted to mention it on 3.12 progress, but it is not a 3.12 topic anymore
15:35:38 <API> #info Magnifier updates
15:35:49 <API> #info Replied to Magdalen's question about polling to acquire the mouse pointer position (bugzilla 618397) [1].
15:35:50 <API> #info Received two screen shots of ZoomText focus/caret tracking preferences from Bas Cancrinus, and put them on gnome wiki.  Asked Bas to describe them in an email to a11y list.
15:35:50 <API> #info The screen shots are here: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GnomeShell/Magnification/ZoomOptionsDialog/ZoomTextTrackingPrefs
15:35:52 <API> #info Bas also recently requested a new feature to move the magnified screen area with a keyboard shortcut (https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=725129)
15:35:52 <Services> 04Bug 725129: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, [RFE] Move the magnified screen area with a keyboard shortcut
15:35:52 <tota11y> 04Bug 725129: normal, Normal, ---, gnome-shell-maint, UNCONFIRMED, [RFE] Move the magnified screen area with a keyboard shortcut
15:36:27 <API> so questions, doubts?
15:36:31 <API> more miscellaneous stuff?
15:37:11 <jjmarin> are those Windows screenshots ?
15:38:04 <API> yes
15:38:14 <API> Bas mentioned that ZoomText was a windows application
15:38:15 <API> but after all
15:38:28 <API> designers do a lot of research looking at other systems
15:38:47 <API> there are plenty of windows, macos, android etc screenshots around the wiki
15:39:25 <jjmarin> sounds sensible do the same for the mangnifier
15:40:31 <jjmarin> I think that joanie's refactoring can be another new feature for GNOME 3.12
15:40:52 <jjmarin> I mean her orca refactoring work
15:41:05 <API> yeah, probably it is worth to be mentioned
15:41:44 <jjmarin> I think today's meeting is going to be short ;-)
15:42:47 <API> yes I think so
15:42:53 <API> as nobody is jumping to add misc stuff
15:42:57 <API> so having said so
15:43:01 <API> I will finish the meeting
15:43:06 <API> thanks everybody for coming
15:43:10 <API> #endmeeting