15:01:47 <API> #startmeeting
15:01:47 <Services> Meeting started Thu Feb 27 15:01:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is API. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:01:47 <Services> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
15:01:53 <API> hi everybody
15:02:03 <API> as usual, lets give 5 minutes of margin
15:02:04 <mgorse> Hi
15:02:06 <API> hi
15:05:48 <API> 5 minutes know
15:05:49 <API> *now
15:05:57 <API> #topic The switch to Services
15:06:00 <API> joanie, ?
15:06:03 <joanie> hey
15:06:04 <joanie> sure
15:06:10 <joanie> I'm going to just start with infos
15:06:43 <joanie> #info Our team has switched to the GNOME infrastructure (Services) for meetbot. Joanie's personal bot (tota11y) is no longer here.
15:07:25 <joanie> #info The benefits of doing so are: Using GNOME infrastructure (as the sysadmin team prefers we do), and getting GNOME support for meetbot bugs.
15:08:04 <joanie> #info This change, however, means that we can no longer redact minutes. Minutes and logs are available at https://meetbot.gnome.org
15:08:35 <joanie> #info While we very, very rarely have a need to redact minutes, there have on occasions been times where we need to have a frank discussion.
15:08:50 * clown reminds himself to limit the profanity
15:09:18 <joanie> #info We can continue to have such frank discussions, of course. But there will no longer be an opportunity to request Joanie remove something that perhaps should not be shared with the world at large. :)
15:09:28 <joanie> Questions?
15:09:40 <API> right now we have a section
15:09:46 <API> with the minutes of a11y meetings
15:09:47 <clown> Noting that '/me' are put in the log as well as normal comments.
15:10:01 <API> that means that now on, we would need to look to minutes at meetbot.gnome.org?
15:10:02 <joanie> clown: yeah, it ain't zakim ;)
15:10:07 <API> or do we still plan to c&p to our wiki?
15:10:08 <joanie> good point API
15:10:28 <joanie> #info Joanie will definitely continue linking our minutes page to the public/Services minutes.
15:10:38 <mgorse> Are full logs posted, or just #infos?
15:10:53 <joanie> #info Joanie will likely not do the reformating or spelling clean up going forward.
15:10:54 <clown> looks like everything, mgorse.
15:10:58 <joanie> mgorse: both
15:10:59 <clown> https://meetbot.gnome.org/a11y-meeting/2014/a11y-meeting.2014-02-27-15.01.log.txt
15:11:05 <clown> that's today's log, so far.
15:11:20 <API> blah
15:11:25 <mgorse> okay, so anything that we say in here is public
15:11:28 <API> oh, it gets updates on real time
15:11:30 <joanie> bingo
15:11:47 <API> no more evil plans
15:11:53 <joanie> or rants
15:11:54 <API> unless they are public evil plans
15:11:58 <clown> shoot, now my jokes have to actually be good ones. :-(
15:12:04 <joanie> heh
15:12:23 <joanie> if anyone has further questions about this change, feel free to ping me after the meeting
15:12:28 <API> fwiw, I don't have more questions
15:12:35 <API> and joanie, thanks for dealing with this
15:12:40 <joanie> my pleasure
15:12:49 <jjmarin> lurking now can be invisible :-)
15:13:24 <clown> it reminds me of the w3c meeting minutes:  there is what is published as html (somewhat redacted), but there is a full log of the IRC channel  (dunno if the latter is public).
15:13:38 <joanie> there is also html
15:13:51 <joanie> for those curious, you can look at the logs from other teams
15:13:57 <joanie> or just wait until this meeting is over
15:14:12 <joanie> more files will show up after the command to end the meeting is given
15:14:38 <clown> okay, good to know.  thanks for the summary joanie.
15:14:39 <joanie> anyhoo, moving on?
15:14:43 <jjmarin> totally was nice when it was alive, but long life to Services ! :-)
15:15:00 <API> yes, lets move on
15:15:09 <API> #topic OPW/GSoC
15:15:20 <API> I think that is joanie point again
15:15:28 <API> joanie, correct me if I'm wrong
15:15:29 <joanie> I'm just a chatterbox today
15:15:35 <joanie> yeah, I'll take this one.
15:15:50 <joanie> #info Once again it's time for OPW and GSoC.
15:16:19 <joanie> #info Once again, Joanie does not have time to serve as a mentor. Piñeiro does not either.
15:16:46 <joanie> #info Joanie is assuming that will be the case for others. As a result, she updated the "mentors" page to reflect that we do not have time this cycle.
15:17:00 <clown> #info Joseph neither.  If Joseph has any time, he would prefer to use it to do the work himself.
15:17:36 <joanie> #info If Joanie is incorrect about her assumption, and other team members have the time and interest to mentor, please let Joanie know. Or update the page to list yourself as a mentor who is available.
15:17:41 * joanie looks for the link
15:18:08 <joanie> https://wiki.gnome.org/GnomeLove/Mentors#Software_Projects
15:18:23 * clown looks
15:19:38 <API> so, questions, doubts, comments?
15:19:47 <clown> none from me.
15:20:07 <API> #topic Progress towards 3.12
15:20:31 <API> I will start
15:20:52 <API> #info Bug 651353 is closed
15:20:52 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=651353 normal, Normal, ---, jdiggs, RESOLVED FIXED, Implement AtkTableCell
15:21:01 <API> #info so we have an AtkTableCell interface
15:21:12 <API> #info we even have someone doing the first implementation
15:21:19 <joanie> yay!
15:21:24 <mgorse> Who?
15:21:47 * API looking for link
15:21:53 <API> #info https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129250
15:21:53 <Services> 04Bug 129250: Normal, P2, ---, k.czech@samsung.com, RESOLVED FIXED, [ATK] Utilize AtkTableCell to expose directly AccessibilityTableCell to AT.
15:22:08 <API> #info WebkitGTK is starting to implement it
15:22:19 <clown> cool
15:22:29 <joanie> way to go webkit -- and way to go mgorse for doing it
15:22:33 <API> #info hopefully we would get in implemented smoothly, and in the worse case, feedback if there is any issue on the new API
15:22:52 <API> #info note that AtkTableCell is right now only on an unstable release
15:23:07 <API> #info so if any problem appear, we can even nuke methods without deprecations
15:23:20 <API> #info is true that 3.12 is just there, but in any case
15:23:41 <API> #info We have a new patch for bug 684576
15:23:41 <Services> 04Bug http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=684576 enhancement, Normal, ---, atk-maint, UNCONFIRMED, API Additions: atk_value_get_description() and atk_value_set_description()
15:24:00 <API> #info that replaces GValue for doubles and add support for string descriptions of strings and ranges
15:24:16 <API> #info but before committing it I would like feedback from implementors
15:24:28 <API> #info mainly from alex surkov, who raised the range issues
15:24:36 <joanie> Mario gave feedback, right?
15:24:41 * joanie says too lazy to look
15:24:42 <API> well, yes
15:24:49 <API> but he mostly skimmed it
15:25:05 <API> for example, he suggested to do things that were already done ;)
15:25:08 <clown> I might this wrong, but I thought there was a "valuetext" property in AT-SPI?  Or am I imagining that?
15:25:28 <clown> or maybe I'm confusing it with IA2.  Not sure.
15:25:54 <joanie> clown: we lack that now
15:26:00 <joanie> and it shows up as... wait for it....
15:26:05 <mgorse> Yeah, you could be. There's nothing like that in AtkValue at least
15:26:06 <joanie> an object attribute!
15:26:28 <API> attributes for everyone
15:26:38 * joanie shakes her fist
15:26:52 <mgorse> s/AtkValue/atspi_value_*/
15:26:54 <clown> yes, right, it's an object attribute 'valuetext: Sunday", for example.
15:27:00 <API> this could be attributes for everyone
15:27:24 <joanie> when I die, I want "hater of object attributes for everything" on my tombstone
15:27:29 <clown> so, improvement then.  Nit:  why call it value_description and not value_text?
15:27:29 <API> clown, yes is the usual "put stuff under the carpet" strategy
15:28:04 <API> joanie, funny that you say that, I was singing "heaven for everyone" replacing "heaven" for "attribute" :P
15:28:08 <API> clown, well
15:28:14 <API> because that text is describing the value
15:28:28 <API> ie: value_text for 3.0 is not "3.0"
15:28:34 <API> is "awesome" or "cool"
15:28:47 <API> or whatever the implementor thinks 3.0 is
15:28:54 <joanie> clown: and likely will appear on screen
15:28:58 <clown> Sure, API.  It's not a big deal.  But, in aria it's aria-valuetext.
15:29:12 <API> aria can be wrong too :P
15:29:16 <API> anyway that is a good poing
15:29:18 <API> *point
15:29:25 <API> the other day joanie and me were asking
15:29:26 <joanie> I'm fine with value_text
15:29:27 <clown> ping poing
15:29:38 <API> about using aria terminology around
15:29:41 <API> specifically on gnome-shell
15:29:46 <API> as it uses javascript
15:29:53 <joanie> because in aria-y (and other) contexts, "description" seems to be for things not on screen
15:29:56 <API> one advantage is that would help us to explain things
15:30:15 <joanie> or maybe on screen but longer text
15:30:25 <API> s/joanie and me were asking/joanie and me were talking
15:30:43 <clown> joanie, if you have a DHTML slider with the names of the days as the screen values, we advise authors to use aria-valuetext and match 1-to-1 with aria-valuenow.
15:31:18 <joanie> clown: not sure I get your point
15:31:26 <clown> I guess it depends on what you mean by screen text.
15:31:28 <joanie> my point is "text" might be better than "description"
15:31:34 <joanie> I mean sighted users can see it
15:31:40 <API> clown, so in that case, with valuenow==3.0, valuetext=="3.0"?
15:31:46 <clown> oh, I thought your point was that description was better than text, joanie.
15:31:52 <joanie> no sir
15:31:57 <joanie> my point was your point seems right
15:31:59 <joanie> :)
15:32:04 <clown> API, no, if we are talking about my example.
15:32:04 <joanie> upon reflection
15:32:25 <clown> value-now="3" value-text="Tueday".
15:32:48 * clown looks up spec reference.
15:33:11 <joanie> value-description (not yet in existence) = "The second day of the week, or the third if you start your week on Sunday like they do in America"
15:33:12 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/PR-wai-aria-20140206/states_and_properties#aria-valuetext
15:33:16 <joanie> (not a great example, but...)
15:33:23 <clown> not a bad idea joanie.
15:33:59 <joanie> not saying we want or need value-description
15:34:09 <joanie> merely saying what a value-description might look like
15:34:12 <clown> example from the spec: "For example, a slider may have rendered values of small, medium, and large. In this case, the values of aria-valuenow could range from 1 through 3, which indicate the position of each value in the value space, but the aria-valuetext would be one of the strings: small, medium, or large."
15:34:15 <joanie> and the answer is "not value-text"
15:34:34 <API> so joanie, you are agreeing to do a s/description/text ?
15:34:38 <API> on that patch?
15:34:41 <joanie> API yes I am
15:34:45 <joanie> I think clown is right
15:34:49 <joanie> now that I've thought about it
15:35:29 <API> #action API will update AtkValue patch after a11y-meeting conclusion
15:35:38 <API> and I think that that is enough review for the meeting
15:35:43 <joanie> :)
15:35:55 <API> any other feedback is more suitable on the bug itself
15:35:56 <API> and thanks
15:35:57 <API> so
15:36:03 <joanie> quick q about it
15:36:10 <joanie> who is going to ping Alex Surkov?
15:36:21 <API> well, when I uploaded the patch
15:36:29 <API> I sent a email to the list
15:36:31 <API> CCing him
15:36:36 <joanie> true....
15:36:37 <API> so, he was already pinged
15:36:44 <API> do you want me doing another ping?
15:36:56 <joanie> I'm wondering if catching him in IRC would be of value (no pun intended)
15:37:04 <joanie> I know my inbox is full
15:37:13 <API> or if you find yourself again debating with him about aria-hidden, you could point the bug ;)
15:37:15 <joanie> but a quick IRC ping often gets me to do something needed
15:37:20 <joanie> hahaha
15:37:48 <joanie> if we want this in 3.12, I don't think we should wait too terribly long for him to get through his email queue
15:38:08 * joanie visualizes a world without email
15:38:22 <API> so joanie, volunteering yourself for an IRC ping?
15:38:25 <joanie> sure
15:38:43 <joanie> #action Joanie will ping Alex Surkov about the AtkValue API proposed.
15:38:57 <joanie> API but I'll wait until you comment on that bug
15:39:01 <joanie> about the value-text change
15:39:07 <API> joanie, ok
15:39:10 <joanie> thanks!
15:39:23 <clown> API, joanie, I just added that comment to the bug.
15:39:27 <API> so, anyone else want to comment anything on this topic?
15:39:31 * clown weird formatting...
15:39:35 <joanie> on the greater topic?
15:39:38 <API> remember, we are at "Progress towards 3.12"
15:39:39 <joanie> or value?
15:39:42 <joanie> yes
15:39:43 <clown> 3.12?
15:39:44 <API> no, on the greater topic
15:39:49 <joanie> i've got a short one
15:39:52 <joanie> just for the record
15:40:00 <clown> I've got a tangential one.
15:40:06 <clown> go ahead joanie.
15:40:18 <joanie> #info Benjamin recently committed some changes to GtkTreeView accessibility and pinged me to be on the lookout for breakage.
15:40:33 <joanie> #info s/me/Joanie/
15:40:51 <joanie> #info Joanie tested and discovered some very-hard-to-reproduce segfaults
15:41:17 <joanie> #info Joanie pointed these out to Benjamin who suggested Valgrind and provided a basic explanation of what the segfault was connected to.
15:41:50 <joanie> #info Unfortunately, Joanie has no idea how to reproduce this issue. And Benjamin doesn't know where the ref/unref issue behind it lies.
15:42:01 <joanie> #info And it is nearly 3.12 time.
15:42:27 <joanie> #info So if people with spare time can also try to crash GtkTreeViews with Accessibility tools, that would be helpful. ;)
15:42:32 <joanie> done
15:43:05 <clown> #info Joseph received feedback from a magnifier user stating that his preference is for tracking modes to be independent of one another.  He is going to do a screen shot of ZoomText's preferences UI in this regard.
15:43:10 <clown> done
15:43:45 <joanie> and I've not pinged Chrys yet. Sorry.
15:43:49 <joanie> crazy week(s)
15:43:57 <jjmarin> anyway, the new UI for the zoom options is not going to land in GNOME 3.12, righ ?
15:43:58 <clown> action roll over...
15:44:24 <clown> jjmarin, I don't know.  I doubt it very much, but I have not been following the progress if there is any.
15:44:43 <API> no progress, at least at the bugzilla
15:44:49 <clown> I don't even know if any bugzillas have been opened for it.
15:44:52 <clown> ah, thanks API.
15:45:17 <API> having said so ....
15:45:19 <API> anything else?
15:45:20 <API> moving?
15:45:24 <joanie> i'm done
15:45:31 <clown> done
15:45:46 <joanie> mgorse: you have any comments about your interim fix?
15:45:54 <joanie> that you did for me (thanks!) but don't like?
15:47:12 <mgorse> #info mgorse committed a change to get the new libatspi to be compatible with older versions of at-spi2-registryd, so long as the new event listener registration API isn't being used
15:48:12 <mgorse> #info Apparently, it is possible, in a jhbuild environment, for the system at-spi2-registryd to be used
15:49:26 <mgorse> #info but the change means sending a signal with two different D-Bus signatures, depending on conditions, so it seems not very clean
15:49:27 <API> so this is problem
15:49:38 <API> that hypothetically would only affect developers, right?
15:49:55 <joanie> API this is that warning spewage I asked you to see if you could reproduce the other day
15:50:02 <API> joanie, yes I know
15:50:04 <joanie> because I didn't know why I was getting all the warnings
15:50:05 <joanie> k
15:50:18 <API> just asking if only affects people like us
15:50:28 <mgorse> yeah, and we only have one at-spi2-registryd implementation right now, so it doesn't really matter in the real world, if that's what you're asking
15:50:29 <API> that deal with jhbuild at-spi2 and system at-spi2
15:50:37 <API> heh, the real world
15:50:44 <API> good to know that we dont live there
15:50:45 <joanie> he, people like us
15:50:49 <joanie> s/he/heh/
15:50:50 <API> mgorse, ok thanks
15:51:00 <API> and good to know that this wouldn't affect users
15:51:06 <mgorse> or if you're asking about having multiple at-spi2-registryd versions, then, yeah, afaik it only affects developers
15:51:20 <API> well, having multiple versions was always a problem
15:51:22 <joanie> so the question is, should those changes be reversed?
15:51:22 <API> and in fact
15:51:27 <mgorse> also, I don't see it, but might be because I'm using sgtartx to start a jhbuild session
15:51:30 <API> these days are easier that in the past
15:51:36 <API> imho
15:51:55 <API> mgorse, bout reversing it
15:52:04 <API> well, although only affects developers
15:52:16 <API> it is also good if developers doesn't have it
15:52:24 <API> so unless is creating some kind of problem
15:52:30 <API> probably it would be better to keep it
15:52:31 <mgorse> I was thinking of maybe reversing it some time after 3.12
15:52:57 <API> mgorse, ok
15:53:07 <API> in any case
15:53:13 <API> as just 7 minutes till the end
15:53:17 <API> I will move to next topic
15:53:20 <API> any objection?
15:53:24 <joanie> nope. go
15:53:25 <joanie> thanks
15:53:26 <clown> nope
15:53:32 <API> #topic W3C updates
15:53:35 <API> joanie, clown ?
15:53:41 <joanie> clown: you go
15:54:00 <clown> #info Alex has suggested, for aria-pressed, remove the object attribute "checkable:true"
15:54:25 <clown> #info I have looked into it, and aria-pressed is only ever used with role="button".
15:54:52 <clown> #info meaning, you can get the toggle-ability from the role alone — no need for a checkable state.
15:55:14 <clown> #info I also looked ATK's toggle button, and it doesn't use a checkable object property.
15:55:20 <joanie> (if it's exposed as a TOGGLE_BUTTON and not a PUSH_BUTTON)
15:55:38 <joanie> (webkitgtk does that; not sure about gecko)
15:55:55 <clown> I can look up a test case later, if you like.
15:55:58 <joanie> k
15:56:23 <clown> #info  It looks like this is an okay change to make to the mapping tables in the UAIG.
15:56:40 <clown> Unless someone here has an objection.
15:56:45 <clown> done, btw.
15:57:13 <joanie> I don't object, but let's check that the UAIG says that the role of button that can be pressed is ATK_ROLE_TOGGLE_BUTTON
15:57:22 <joanie> and then I think it makes sense to make that change
15:57:31 * joanie mutters one less useless object attribute
15:57:32 <joanie> ;)
15:57:36 <clown> From test case 161:  "Expose STATE_PRESSED, AND
15:57:36 <clown> Expose the role as ROLE_TOGGLE_BUTTON, AND
15:57:36 <clown> Expose object attribute checkable:true."
15:57:46 <joanie> there you go then
15:57:49 <joanie> thanks for checking!!
15:58:01 <clown> that's for a case of role="button" and aria-pressed="true".
15:58:07 <clown> no problem.
15:58:21 <joanie> if aria-pressed="false" ?
15:58:29 <joanie> i.e. that's a toggle button that isn't toggled, right?
15:58:37 <clown> Expose the role as ROLE_TOGGLE_BUTTON, AND
15:58:37 <clown> Expose object attribute checkable:true.
15:58:42 <clown> that's from test case 162
15:58:57 <clown> so, I gather the STATE_PRESSED is cleared.
15:59:02 <joanie> cool
15:59:04 <joanie> that makes sense
15:59:39 <clown> i have some nonsense from IA2 in this regard, but it can wait until misc time.
15:59:40 * API wonders if joanie+clown finished to chat
15:59:49 <joanie> I'm done
15:59:55 <joanie> seems we are objection-free
15:59:56 * API will wait for two "im done"
15:59:59 <joanie> :)
16:00:26 <API> clown, you finished too?
16:00:30 <clown> I'm done.
16:00:49 <API> so moving then
16:00:59 <API> sorry for the rush if you feel the speed
16:01:01 <API> #topic Marketing
16:01:02 <API> jjmarin, ?
16:01:08 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo has received the reply from Alejandro about the of AT-SPI/ ATK entries for updating the Wikipedia. Juanjo hasn't got the time yet to process the reply
16:01:17 <jjmarin> BTW, I am not sure if mgorse received my email about this or if he is fine with the content
16:01:26 <jjmarin> #info Juanjo hasn't updated his early draft for the annual report this week.
16:01:33 <jjmarin> lalala
16:01:37 <mgorse> Oh, right. I'm sorry. I still need to do that.
16:01:38 <joanie> heh
16:02:07 <joanie> jjmarin: and since the rest of us are totally caught up with our action items (yeah, right), you should feel bad :P
16:02:11 <jjmarin> mgorse: ok, thanks :-)
16:02:24 <joanie> if we ever all get caught up, it will be a sign of the apocalypse
16:02:35 <jjmarin> :-)
16:03:03 <jjmarin> #info GNOME 3.12 is getting closer and it is a good idea to add the new features, big fixes, better bugs or refactoring in https://wiki.gnome.org/ThreePointEleven/ReleaseNotes#What.27s_new_in_accessibility in order to find a place in the release notes
16:03:04 <API> obviously apocalypse will give us a lot of spare time
16:03:22 <joanie> I'm going to take up horseback riding!
16:03:23 <joanie> :P
16:03:33 <clown> yes, we'll be in heaven after the apocalypse with nothing to do.
16:03:40 <API> jjmarin, so implicitly
16:03:52 <API> you are asking us to add new stuff on that wiki page?
16:03:53 <clown> or perhaps valhalla
16:04:25 <jjmarin> yes, to start having an idea what we can add in the release notes
16:05:14 <API> ok thanks
16:05:18 <API> so
16:05:19 <clown> jjmarin, the "GtkColorChooser" link is busted.  As in the third bullet.
16:05:30 <clown> Or, maybe it shouldn't be a link?
16:05:56 <API> clown, I think that is an effect of the wiki
16:06:06 <API> anything with the form FooBar
16:06:11 <API> is automatically converted to a link
16:06:12 <jjmarin> it is bad positive link
16:06:21 <clown> You can get rid of the link by adding ' marks.
16:06:21 <API> it doesn't matter if the content exist or not
16:06:22 <joanie> you have to preface it with a "!"
16:06:23 <API> yes, exactly
16:06:31 <API> yes, exactly2
16:06:35 <clown> Something like:  Gtk'''Color'''Chooser
16:06:40 <clown> or an !
16:06:54 <API> so, anything else here?
16:06:59 <API> comment and or questions?
16:07:03 <clown> not from me.
16:07:16 <jjmarin> #info So, yes add some info there. You can add also some bugzilla references or any kind of link to learn more about those features and what to write about :-)
16:07:28 <API> ok thanks
16:07:35 <API> #topic miscellaneous time
16:07:49 <API> something not scheduled (and quick) to add to the meeting?
16:08:02 <clown> So, I said above that there was some nonsense about togglebuttons in IA2.
16:08:06 <clown> Here is a quote:
16:08:12 <clown> "IA2_ROLE_TOGGLE_BUTTON should not be used. Instead, use MSAA's ROLE_SYSTEM_PUSHBUTTON and STATE_SYSTEM_PRESSED."
16:08:25 <joanie> quote from?
16:08:32 <clown> the IA2 spec.
16:08:38 <joanie> splendid
16:08:46 <joanie> this is why we can't have nice things
16:08:52 <clown> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_role_8idl.html#ae37ff81431ee3762a5d41a2cb909108da6d356fef4baf5bd970b156acada90541
16:09:06 <clown> Alex and James Teh have file a bug with them.
16:09:06 <API> yes, I read some mails about that from the ia2 mailing list
16:09:16 <API> someone saying that one is not used
16:09:16 <clown> They want it changed to "should be used'.
16:09:22 <API> but in other place saying that should be used
16:09:52 <clown> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2014-February/001839.html
16:10:15 <joanie> I should probably subscribe to that list
16:10:28 <API> not a lot of emails in any case
16:10:40 <clown> sorry, they didn't file a bugzilla, but sent email.
16:11:04 <jjmarin> IA2 is being used by any software ?
16:11:26 <API> jjmarin, on windows yes
16:11:35 <API> afaik
16:11:39 <jjmarin> ok
16:11:46 <joanie> and for better or worse, there's a desire for ATK and IA2 to be in close alignment
16:11:51 <clown> yes, FF exposes all a11y stuff via IA2 on widnwos.
16:12:02 <API> well, the idea is getting the good ideas from ia2
16:12:12 <API> I propose to refrain to get the bad ideas
16:12:12 <joanie> API that's not the only idea
16:12:14 <joanie> ;)
16:12:23 <joanie> but that's a rant for another time and place
16:12:44 <jjmarin> we can lend them the bad ideas of AT-SPI :-)
16:12:52 <API> and remember that now rants should be smooth
16:12:56 <clown> note that IA2 includes IA.  That is, MSAA
16:12:58 <API> Services is watching
16:12:58 <Services> API: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
16:13:18 <clown> ?
16:13:26 <joanie> API hence my "for another time and **place**" (emphasis added)
16:13:27 <joanie> ;)
16:13:28 <clown> what are you on about, Service?
16:13:35 <clown> what are you on about, Services?
16:13:52 <API> Services answer clown, he is talking with you
16:13:52 <Services> API: Error: "answer" is not a valid command.
16:13:54 <clown> Services is quiet now.
16:13:54 <Services> clown: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
16:14:01 <joanie> y'all.....
16:14:03 <API> ok, that was misc enough
16:14:06 <API> so, closing meeting?
16:14:07 <jjmarin> be nice, Services is a newbie :-)
16:14:19 <clown> Services, noobie
16:14:19 <Services> clown: Error: "noobie" is not a valid command.
16:14:29 <clown> Services, ?
16:14:29 <Services> clown: Error: "?" is not a valid command.
16:14:34 <clown> wow...
16:14:37 <API> at least he is quick
16:14:43 <API> #endmeeting